Lens Education!

[BernieSC]

the easiest way to understand is to know that lenses give an angle of view. If you look at the lens specs it will tell you what the angle of view is. the lower the number the wider the angle of view and higher the tighter the angle of view. Most people think of lenses as magnification when you go above 50mm. Actually the angle of view is getting tighter so it shows your subject more tight.

 

[Artemis]

So summing up a little, with the choice of taking the camera alone with a 28mm-90mm lens and buying another lens separately... or...

taking the camera with both the 28mm-90mm and the 90mm-300mm...

what would one do!?

And if I take the single lens, what other reasonably priced lens would be recommended? To begin with I'll be trying my hand at a bit of everything and I want to make sure I have the right kit assist at least some experimentation in different techiniques...landscape/closeup/portrait etc?

Thoughts anyone? I just don't want to make a bad choice and regret it later :|

The 90 - 300, or 70 - 300 5.6 lens you buy seperatly costs about £150, where as its pritty cheap with the kit, but not as good as the seperate lens....still, id say its worth getting it with the lens.

 

[ksmattfish]

a 50mm F/1.0 lens will transmit nearly twice as much light as a 50mm F/2.0 lens (50mm vs 25mm).

A f/1.0 lens is 2 stops faster than an f/2.0 lens, so it would be four times as much light.

 

[wharrison]

Becky:

Whoops! I stand corrected; but that's what happens when I post a response late in the evening. Actually, a 50mm F/1.0 lens transmits four times as much light as a 50mm F/2.0.

The difference between F/stops is also a mathematical relationship. If you square a F/1.0 lens aperature, i.e. "1", you'll get "1"; but if you square an F/2.0 lens aperture, i.e. "2", you'll get "4". By dividing the higher number by the lower number, i.e. 4 divided by 1; there will be a four times greater difference in the transmission of light.

F Duddy: As a matter of fact, the area of a circle is calculated "different" in my area of the world, especially, when it is late at night and my mind is in the "foggy bottoms". In the morning, when I am awake, there is still another method of calculation. :>) I am surprised that you didn't know that. ;>)

Becky:

I am not really certain that BernieSC's comments are all that helpful, since you seem to be at a point where you are choosing your basic camera gear and/or deciding whether you will purchase an additional lens to your basic camera gear.

Perhaps, the following story will be of some help.

Decades ago, I purchased a used Honeywell H3V camera, a manual camera that didn't have a through the lens metering system, but rather had a clip on meter that was integrated with the shutter speed. This camera came with the "standard" 50mm F/1.8, which was entirely suitable for this then beginning photographer.

Since I enjoyed doing candid portraiture - shooting pictures of people without them knowing it (mostly) and since I thought that I would also enjoy the photography of small animals, I "decided" that the "wisest" choice would be to choose the 200mm F/4.0 Honeywell (Takumar) lens.

It was the poorest choice that I ever made - photographically. If I tried to take candid portraits in the home; the magnification of the lens (4 times in comparison to the 50mm lens, i.e. 200 / 50 = 4) was so great that I would have had to shoot through either a window outside of the house or walk into the next room in order to get some distance between me and the subject - just to get a nice "head" shot.

By the same token, this 200mm lens was too "short", i.e. didn't "magnify" the subject sufficiently enough (bring the subject close enough) when I wanted to take photographs of birds, squirrels, and/or pets. In order to take photographs of such small animals, I would have had to move in closer to fill the frame, something which would have, of course, scared them away in most cases.

So my supposedly "wise" choice at that period of my photographic endeavors was practically useless.

In the meantime, I decided that what I really (mainly) wanted to photograph was candid shots of people under all sorts of available light conditions and I wanted to be certain of rapid and accurate focus as well as far better photographic results, so I traded all of my small Pentax collection in for a Leica M-4 rangefinder camera with the DR (Dual Range) Summicron lens - F/2.0, which was then about a $100.00 more than a Pentax, Canon, or Nikon camera with a 50mm F/1.4 lens.

My first additional Leica lens was the 135mm Hektor F/4.5 and I choose that because one of our customers in the camera shop where I was working traded in his Leica rangefinder equipment for the then new Leicaflex SL. Obviously, this person was a doctor and I was then relatively poor and was able to charge it (about $115.00) to my account at the shop.

Although it is an older design, I wouldn't part with this old lens for the world. For one, it suffers from a little "curvature of field" at wide open, which makes it a wonderful portrait lens, since the image - wide open - gives a nice "soft" effect on the edges when used wide open to about 1 stop closed down. If I stop the lens down further F/6.3 or more, the images are sharp and full of fine detail from corner to corner.

In addition, this old lens closes down to F/32, which makes it very suitable for a little extra depth of field, when and if needed, when I am using the lens head in conjunction with the Visoflex III and the Bellows II for macrophotography - photographing at a ratio of reproduction from 1:3 to 1:1 or greater.

Although the addition of the 135mm Hektor F/4.5 was my first (wiser" choice, I found that this focal length put a greater distance between me and the person whom I was photographing. Although I wanted to shoot portraits in a candid fashion, I also found out that I enjoy talking with the people I was photographing. So my next purchase was the 90mm Summicron F/2.0.

The "moral" of this story is that there is no "ideal" camera/lens combination simply because one's photographic endeavors or interests do change.

Although I do have a zoom lens for our Canon AE-1 and A-1 cameras - a Canon FD 70 to 150mm, both Sue and I use our "prime" (fixed focal length) lenses 90-95 percent of the time, because they are simpler to use; generally have a wider aperture - thus greater light transmission to both the viewfinder and to the film; and they weigh less.

In addition, lens designers cannot possibly make the needed optical corrections to all of the focal lengths within a zoom lens focal length, i.e. the 28mm to 90mm range that you seem to be interested in purchasing. At one or at several points, the optical image is going to suffer and you won't be able to obtain the best photographic results in comparison to a "prime" lens. And at one point in the zoom's focal length, your images may suffer from either "barrel" or "pincushion" distortion - where straight lines at the edges will either "barrel" out or "pincushion" inward. On the "positive" side, zoom lens design has improved over the years, but I still suspect that highly corrected and high quality zoom lens are few and far between.

If you wish to check out some reviews of a high quality zoom lens; here's a link.

http://photosig.pcphotoreview.com/cat/pcphotoreview/digital-accessories/lenses/35mm-zoom/leica/PRD_83476_3128crx.aspx

From the brief information you have given, I suspect that you may have a limited budget. If that's the case, you may wish to - tentatively - purchase the 28mm to 90mm zoom lens and then spend a great deal of time - like a year or two - exploring all aspects of your initial investment, before choosing to add another lens to your pallet of choices.

More to come - later.

Again, I hope that this discussion has been useful.

Best wishes in your photographic endeavors!

Bill

 

[wharrison]

Becky:

Here is a general link to reviews of various lenses, which might be of help.

http://photosig.pcphotoreview.com/cat/pcphotoreview/digital-accessories/lenses/CAT_3787CRX.ASPX

Still more to come.

Bill

 

[Hertz van Rental]

Whoops! I stand corrected; but that's what happens when I post a response late in the evening. Actually, a 50mm F/1.0 lens transmits four times as much light as a 50mm F/2.0.

The difference between F/stops is also a mathematical relationship. If you square a F/1.0 lens aperature, i.e. "1", you'll get "1"; but if you square an F/2.0 lens aperture, i.e. "2", you'll get "4". By dividing the higher number by the lower number, i.e. 4 divided by 1; there will be a four times greater difference in the transmission of light.

You wouldn't have made the mistake if you had remembered your Maths.
Remember how you calculate the area of a circle?
Doubling the diameter multiplies the surface area by a factor of 4.
Therefore a hole of twice the diameter has 4x the surface area so must let in 4x the amount of light.
Stops work on a doubling, which is why the stops sequence has two 'sets'.
1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 - 32 - 64
1.4 - 2.8 - 5.6 - 11 - 22 - 45
Each sequence increases by a factor of 4 so combining them gives a factor of 2 between each one.
But the original question was about lens types so f-stops don't realy need to be discussed, do they?
;-)

 

[Becky]

Thanks for all your help guys, in the end I bought the camera and went for both lenses!

 

[wharrison]

Hertz:

I knew there had to be an semi-literate, narrowly focused, "nit-picker" among this discussion forum!

Your last comment, "But the original question was about lens types so f-stops don't realy need to be discussed, do they?" make me wonder whether you have really read and understood the dimensions of Becky's original question and her various responses or whether you are mainly interested in putting people down, instead of educating them.

Becky's original question was:

"Is anyone able to explain to me the difference between lenses, i.e I know you can have say a 28mm-90mm but how does this differ from another lens and why? How do you know which lens to use for what?

I know its basic but as an SLR newb I still have loads of questions about stuff like this and its hard to know whats what! I've been researching lots online to try and limit the amount of stupid questions I ask but I can't find a basic easy to understand answer!" (emphasis added)

Later, Becky stated:

"So summing up a little, with the choice of taking the camera alone with a 28mm-90mm lens and buying another lens separately... or...

taking the camera with both the 28mm-90mm and the 90mm-300mm...

what would one do!?

And if I take the single lens, what other reasonably priced lens would be recommended? To begin with I'll be trying my hand at a bit of everything and I want to make sure I have the right kit assist at least some experimentation in different techiniques...landscape/closeup/portrait etc?

Thoughts anyone? I just don't want to make a bad choice and regret it later" (emphasis added)

And still later, she wrote:

"Wow, thankyou!! I'll check out thoes books and do my reading, excellent thanks again and take care.

I'm still a little confused by the term "high-speed" lens... how do I know which are high speed and which aren't? :???:" (emphasis added)

Given the fact that Becky wishes to experiment with "different techniques . . . . landscape/ closeup/portrait, etc?" and given the fact that she doesn't "want to make a bad choice and regret it later" why not provide her with information to make a more intelligent decision about her intended photographic endeavors.

I realize that she may, indeed, feel more than flooded, if not entirely overwhelmed, with all the information, suggestions, etc. being provided in this discussion, especially mine, but, hopefully, she will be better able to make a more intelligent decision about her photographic endeavors and "not regret it later."

Or is this type of helpful discussion not within your abilities or intentions!

Bill

 

[Hertz van Rental]

I knew there had to be an semi-literate, narrowly focused, "nit-picker" among this discussion forum!

Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you are a nice person, realy. All the same, it was nice of you to volunteer for the post ;-)

 

[HoboSyke]

Thanks for the informative thread.

 

[wharrison]

Becky:

It was too late in the evening to make good on my promise of "more coming", so here the promised additional information, which might be of some use or, perhaps, even great help in your photographic explorations.

For some additional information on Alfred Eisenstaedt, you might fully explore the link below.

http://www.life.com/Life/eisie/eisie.html

In checking out this site, you'll note the following statement:

Eisie--as his friends called him--applied a simple credo to taking pictures: "It's more important to click with people than to click the shutter."

How true!!!!!

As mentioned previously, I am, again, recommending the reading of "The Eye of Eisenstaedt" by Alfred Eisenstaedt because it will assist you in seeing photographically. One of the delight of this book is that Eisenstaedt lets you see some of his B & W contact prints and then discusses why he choose a certain photograph within the series over others. At the present time, I haven't encountered another book which makes this approach.

In addition, this book as well as the others suggested, are what I called good "armchair reads". They are not filled with a host of overwhelming "technical" information by which one's mind can become lost in the shuffle. To express it in other terms, they are relaxing reads full of insight and good information.

Again, I would suggest the reading of "Better Colour" by Walther Bensor. Although it is not as profusely illustrated as Eisenstaedt's book, it is also a very worthwhile "armchair read".

Unfortunately, I forgot to mention another excellent book, which may provide you with a great deal of photographic inspiration. Again, unfortunately, it is out of print, but if you can obtain a copy of Anne Tucker's "The Woman's Eye" through your public library or used bookseller, I have no doubts that you will greatly appreciate and treasure the photographic efforts of woman!

I haven't been able to locate a review of this book, but I did come across one link that might be of interest to you for further reading and/or enjoyment.

http://www.womeninphotography.org/archive08-Oct01/gallery/f2/book.html

Once you arrive at this site, you may enjoy the humorous self-portrait by Francis Benjamin Johnston at the top of the page. At the time, "proper ladies" shouldn't smoke, drink, cross their legs, and/or reveal their bloomers. Good old Francis committed all of these "sins" in her self-portrait. Hurray for her!!!!!!

Another excellent woman photographer, you might be interested in exploring is Margaret Bourke-White, who was also one of the original photographers for Life magazine. There is an excellent biography of her, but I don't recall the author at present, but will provide it soon.

Years ago, I read her book "Halfway to Freedom" (Margaret Bourke-White) which is an excellent example of both good photography and excellent writing/analysis. The book is an superb photographic and written study of India from a British colony to an independent state. She was the last western person to see and photograph Ghandi before he was assassinated and she offers a more than interesting insight into the man.

Here's a link for some background about this unique woman photographer.

http://www.photo-seminars.com/Fame/MargaretWhite.htm

I do hope that you're not excessively overwhelmed by all of this information, but I do hope that it will further encourage your judacious explorations of life.

Again, my best wishes for your endeavors.

Bill

 

[hobbes28]

Bill, I'm not being sarcastic or trying to demean you in any way, neither was Hertz, when I say this: You should seriously think about writing a book on photography. You are just a wealth of information and it shouldn't be held back. I think what happens sometimes is that people just don't expect to get so much information at the same time. It's all very helpful so I go back to my original statement...you should write a book.

 

[wharrison]

Becky:

You're more than welcomed with regard to the information.

If you find yourself in need of additional information or advice, give the post a jingle.

Best regards,

Bill