Living in USA/Canada pros and cons?

[JoeW27]

I'm not trying to make this about politics. But here is my take to a couple of issues I raised briefly in my initial post that generated some responses.

1. Gun violence. Yes, violent crime is significantly down in the US. It's been going down the past two decades. This is very much a function of an aging populations (even violent criminals for instance become less violent as they age). And yes, there are a tremendous amount of long guns/rifles in Canada, especially when you get up north or you're in the great plains. That said, most Americans just don't get how the rest of the world is stunned at how comfortable we are with such wide-spread gun ownership. And when there is a school shooting in Canada or England or Norway or Germany, it's a major shock, it's not viewed as a tragedy but just one of 20 or 30 over the past 5 years (like it is in the USA). I'm not taking a stand on the wisdom of widespread gun ownership or crime deterence or any of that. I'm still saying that if you're a European and you move to the USA and settle in the South or most of the West, you're likely to find it very unsettling how many guns you see or how comfortable people are with guns (even if they don't own one).

2. Healthcare. Most Americans like to feel like we have the world's best healthcare system. Well, I think that's impossible to objectively measure (in part b/c it would vary based on what type of specific care you were talking about). For instance, Costa Rica (with dentistry) is targeting Americans...yes Americans and doing so successfully. Cuba provides outstanding healthcare in a variety of areas that beats some of the services available to Americans. There are a number of professional sports teams in the USA who send their athletes to Germany for sports hernia surgery. And on and on. My point is not that the USA healthcare is crap. It's that if money is no barrier, then a destination in the USA is not automatic and probably not even the majority of cases for the ultra rich and or educated who can afford whatever they want. As for the impact of the ACA/Obamacare, setting aside all partisanship on this...it remains to be seen what impact it has on the quality of healthcare. The US Supreme Court has just taken up a case before it was disputed which would allow them to overturn funding of ACA on a technicality.

Canada and the USA, in terms of freedoms, are remarkably similar.

 

[astroNikon]

You can go someplace in the winter time and not freeze to death.

 

[rexbobcat]

Canada has better health insurance.

If you order a lot of stuff online, it's probably easier to get it in the USA since EVERYONE ships here.

Canada has better hockey.

USA obviously has better football, although the only good kind of watch is college. The NFL is basically a bunch of over-paid wife beaters who will probably be broke and/or in prison in the near future.

Um, if you were to move from Canada to the USA, I'd say you might not want to live in Texas....Or really anywhere in the South actually.

 

[mmaria]

Pros (USA):
--Opportunities for different kinds of work and education
--In certain areas more than others, a multi-cultural environment, which can lead to things like very good restaurants, cultural events, interesting people to meet
--Beautiful in so many different kinds of ways. There's many different kinds of geography and climates to choose from because we're just so damn big.
--Free public education and excellent colleges
--The chance to participate in public change. The poor voter turnout generally means that change doesn't happen as often as it can or probably should, but beyond just voting, there are many ways to get involved in the community to effect important local changes.
--Civil protections by law, some of which are eroding (unless we fight back!) but some are still strong.


Cons:
--Salaries may be higher than in other parts of the world, but so is the cost of living.
--Excellent health care if you can afford it, which is a hardship for many people. Insurance is necessary to be able to afford anything but the most basic needs.
--That same multi-cultural environment can also cause tensions, and racial tension is still a significant issue in some areas
--To afford our living costs, we have to work a lot, sometimes more than is good for us (depending on the lifestyle, of course). There are fewer opportunities for a more relaxed lifestyle.

If I weren't living in the US, I'd move back to Europe in a heartbeat. The obvious choice would be Portugal and I'd probably end up there (Why? Lower cost of living, beautiful scenery, job opportunities (it's easier for me to survive as an English teacher there than it is here), a less stressful lifestyle, ease of travel to the rest of Europe.) But I might want to try out a few different countries first. I've got a feeling that I would enjoy Denmark or Norway.

Wow, you don't ask the HARD questions or anything, do you, Marija?

I think that for many of us, like myself, who have never lived anywhere else--and in my case, never really even BEEN to another country (except on a cruise)--it's going to be tough to give you an objective perspective.

I live here because I've always lived here. Because it is home, and I've loved it all my life. Is it better than some other places in America? Is it better than Canada? Yes. And no. It really depends on the person, I'd say.

Outside of the fact that I've always lived in the southeast US, and that most of my family lives within a day's drive of me here, I guess the things that compel me to stay here, as opposed to somewhere else in the US or moving to Canada:

1. The weather. I seriously detest the cold. There is NOWHERE in Canada, that I'm aware of, that I could tolerate during the winter. I can barely tolerate Tennessee in the winter.

2. The land diversity. In no more than seven hours, I can travel to mountains (well, hills really, compared to what most call "mountains"), the beach, warmer weather, cooler weather, a lake, woods, wide open fields, or urban, active cities.

3. Our freedoms. This would rank as the #1 reason I live here, but in this specific instance, where you are asking about the US or Canada, I really don't know enough about Canadian laws and such to know how their freedoms compare to ours.

4. The people. There are few places I've been to where the people, as a whole, are as polite, friendly and helpful as the south. This is as a generalization--to be sure some are rude, pretentious bores. And on the flip side, being objective, I'd have to say that people in the south also "tend" to be extremely conservative and...well...bigoted sometimes against those groups of people that are not like them. Again, certainly, not ALL of us are like that; not even MOST of us, I'd say. But the ones that ARE tend to be especially vocal about it.


There's so much more to it, those few things were just off the top of my head and they barely touch the surface.

oh c'mon girls we know that the biggest con is paying up to 100$ for the hair and nails stuff!!!

L, I know you expected a different answer from me but there's your another post I 'll reply differently. This one barely touch the surface of what has been mentioned.

 

[mmaria]

As for the USA, it's freedom baby!!

pros: freedom,

Our freedoms. This would rank as the #1 reason I live here, but in this specific instance, where you are asking about the US or Canada, I really don't know enough about Canadian laws and such to know how their freedoms compare to ours.

Freedom is something that should be thought of as complete in and of itself. As in; there is no such thing as partial freedom. (Note: political expression of the state of our freedom has been deleted).

Freedom to (insert first 10 amendments to the US Constitution here). But the Founders initially resisted enumerating them, considering freedom to be self-explanatory. You're either free or you're not in some way.

ok... out of the first 5 people that answered on my questions, 4 of you mentioned "freedom".

Designer and Warhorse, Have you ever lived anywhere else? To compare "freedom" you may have in another countries not just in USA.

I asked "what freedom" because the first thing that comes to my mind when thinking about USA certainly isn't that.
I'm aware that once I'm in USA I wont be able to go out if I want to lead a "normal" family life. As soon as I stepped on on your territory I'll be deeply in depths.
You're so bounded by financial bounds, mortgages, paying rates for everything and anything that I could barely feel "free" in your country because I'll be busy trying to earn enough of money so I could pay everything and sleep well.

On the other hand, yeah, I get the freedom in the sense of how runnah mentioned it:

Freedom to: express yourself politically, religiously, creatively, sexually. Freedom to have the choice to live you life almost exactly as you want to.

because I really can't tell that I have that freedom in my part of the world.
You give this all but of course it comes with a certain price.

 

[mmaria]

It is saddening to see the depth of ignorance Americans have of other countries. (and for you of recent education types I use the word ignorance in its true sense i.e. lack of knowledge). I am an American, but have a long association with Canada. We in America in the last 20 years have given up so many of our freedoms that in fact you have more in Canada. As for those claiming lack of diversity in Canad I would advise them to visit any of the cities up there and then make that statement. Canada has for decades had a more open immigration policy than the US. Many assert the lack of freedom to own guns in Canada, that is a pure fiction. Merely more regulation, but even that may change.

As for education? Canada still has it, the US got rid of it 30 years ago. Costs? quite comparable, except the Medical care id free in Canada, and arguable equal or better than that in the US. The CONS fro Canada is really one....CLIMATE.

--..... but most white Americans only speak one language and few the rest of the world as a bunch of foreigners. You can go anyplace on this planet and run into a lot of ignorance about other countries. But the combination of two ocean barriers plus being such a big country where people come to us to sell things (versus us having to go overseas for jobs or to sell all of our stuff) means that we're somewhat ego-centric and see ourselves as the center of the world (somewhat like China I think).

am I allowed to completely agree with you even though I've never lived in USA/Canada?

I've met lots of USA people during my life and know enough about USA to have my own opinion. Because of "diversity of USA people" (not sure I can put it that way) I met and interact with I dare to have a generalized opinion on Americans.

I really didn't have a chance to meet enough Canadians to have my own opinion on them.

**Generalizing is wrong, wrong, bad, bad and of course I don't think like this about every USA person. Can we now move on?

It's pretty rare to have a "normal" conversation with Americans (about their country) and any kind of conversation without their "sense of pride and being superior to the rest of the planet".
I was a kid when I started to interact with lots of USA people and I really didn't know much about anything but I was amazed how little they know about some general stuff like geography, history... I had to know bunch of unnecessary stuff about other countries at early age because my school made me. USA schools aren't like that.

At 10 I could have a decent conversation in German and in English. German I learned in school, English I was curious and learned by myself....They knew just English and no one was interested in learning any other language... ever.

 

[mmaria]

So... is someone thinking of moving to this continent someday?

When I was 13 I had a few serious job offers from a few different USA organizations.
I soo wanted to go but because I was just 13 I needed the consent from my parents... After each of those organization-parents meeting I think I cried because I couldn't go. I understood my parents but my desire to leave was huge.

5 years ago I had to make a decision. Going to USA or going to the place that God forgot and get married. After months and months thinking about what will I do, I chose the second option.

My contry/ies are f.cked up. USA/Canada is a constant idea/option... lately the talks about it are intensified so I decided to ask you guys about pros and cons.

Considering everything I would probably choose Canada, but my family (the best part of it) is in USA and my second brother chose USA also. That's something I'm not sure I can ignore.

 

[gsgary]

Freedom ? I read about a lad that got life in prison for stealing a slice of pizza because of the 3 strike rule

 

[mmaria]

mmaria; I am curious as to why you think America's health care system is deficient in some way. And FYI: huge major changes have occurred in the recent past, so are we discussing the "system" as it was prior to: "On March 23, 2010, President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act." or after this was enacted?

As far as I know, America had the most advanced medical care in the world, and probably still does.

In our state, every hospital is required to maintain an emergency room, and anyone who goes there with an emergency is treated. Afterward, if said person has insurance, the hospital is happy to send the bill to the insurance carrier. If said person does not have insurance, the hospital writes it off and charges the next insured person's insurance carrier double. So medical insurance rates can get kind of crazy, but most people think they are getting it "free" at work, so they don't complain. Heaven help anyone who is self-employed and wants to buy medical insurance.

here's what I have to say

Here's what I'll say about the health care here: If I ever get any illness more serious than a cold, then I am screwed. There are those who are wealthy and can afford it; there are others who get insurance through work, and they can afford it. There are the very poor who get Medicare/Medicaid and they don't get the benefit of those with really good private insurance, but they still get help in paying for the cost.

Then there are still millions of us who aren't poor enough to qualify for Medicaid, but not earning enough to afford to pay for our own health insurance and are not getting diddly squat from our employers.

We are the ones who see this top-rate health care system right in front of us that is blocked because of the prohibitive costs. We're the ones who have to go out of the country to get care if something serious goes wrong.

In addition to what L said...

While I was studying in another country, the University covered the health insurance. We had a student's ambulance but for something more serious we had to go in regular hospitals where the care is not covered by the University.
Long story short, one night I had to go to ER, I had two operations that night and had to spend about a week in the hospital. I was treated as a foreign citizen which meant that I need to pay a lot. My family of course didn't have that money.
What happened? There were some boards and meetings of medical experts from both of the countries justifying the emergency of my operations. They came to conclusion that the operation was indeed that urgent and that I couldn't go to my country and have it at that moment. So, the health insurance from my country paid for it. Can that happen in USA also?

For years I had to go to ER once a month to get two different painkiller injected. How much would that be?

I must do the lasik surgery. It's completely up to me when I'll do it but doctors are pushing me to do it as soon as possible. How much would I pay for it in USA? How much would my regular check ups at ophthalmologist cost? How much are contacts I need to change every two months?

A month or so ago, my boy had to have an emergency operation. I spent the first night with him in the room, my hb spent the second night. We paid nothing. If I was in USA on top of all that mess I'd have to think about paying for it.

When my son and DIL lived in England, she was constantly in praise of the health care system. But then, nobody in her family needed a liver transplant, either.

I don't get this underlined part at all

Yes, this was in the back of my mind when I raised my points with Designer above, and I think it is a fair position. People also come to European countries in this way; notably Munich is a favoured destination for medical tourism amongst rich Arabian and Russian clients, er, patients.

In my country (oh well, my second country) medical tourism is blooming for years. People get the same quality for much less money.

 

[mmaria]

America's gun culture is no where near as bad as the media would have you believe. Same with violence. Crime is way down across the country.... Again, if you listen to the media you would assume all Americans carry all the time and it's just not the case.
But we have a dozen 24 hour news channels and they have to find content to fill that time so every little thing is blown out of proportion.

oh .... media... here's what I think about USA-media

I think that no other country use the "media weapon" as America does.

No other country in the world shout that loud: "I'm proud to be/I'm blessed to be American/French/German/Australian/Canadian"

Marketing!

You people are aware how powerful media is and you're using it accordingly. In addition, you simply love to make a sensation out of everything.
Sadly, most of people will grasp only what is presented to them.

I can't tell the number of people I "converted" about my nation. My first cousin spent 10 years living in Germany. When she came back she was afraid of my father (her uncle) because of his nationality. Why? Listening to media.

I have so much to tell about the role of media but it would get pretty nasty and it doesn't really belong in this thread.

Additionally, I feel that I am blessed to live in America.

again, my grandson, how so?

 

[gsgary]

mmaria; I am curious as to why you think America's health care system is deficient in some way. And FYI: huge major changes have occurred in the recent past, so are we discussing the "system" as it was prior to: "On March 23, 2010, President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act." or after this was enacted?

As far as I know, America had the most advanced medical care in the world, and probably still does.

In our state, every hospital is required to maintain an emergency room, and anyone who goes there with an emergency is treated. Afterward, if said person has insurance, the hospital is happy to send the bill to the insurance carrier. If said person does not have insurance, the hospital writes it off and charges the next insured person's insurance carrier double. So medical insurance rates can get kind of crazy, but most people think they are getting it "free" at work, so they don't complain. Heaven help anyone who is self-employed and wants to buy medical insurance.

here's what I have to say

Here's what I'll say about the health care here: If I ever get any illness more serious than a cold, then I am screwed. There are those who are wealthy and can afford it; there are others who get insurance through work, and they can afford it. There are the very poor who get Medicare/Medicaid and they don't get the benefit of those with really good private insurance, but they still get help in paying for the cost.

Then there are still millions of us who aren't poor enough to qualify for Medicaid, but not earning enough to afford to pay for our own health insurance and are not getting diddly squat from our employers.

We are the ones who see this top-rate health care system right in front of us that is blocked because of the prohibitive costs. We're the ones who have to go out of the country to get care if something serious goes wrong.

In addition to what L said...

While I was studying in another country, the University covered the health insurance. We had a student's ambulance but for something more serious we had to go in regular hospitals where the care is not covered by the University.
Long story short, one night I had to go to ER, I had two operations that night and had to spend about a week in the hospital. I was treated as a foreign citizen which meant that I need to pay a lot. My family of course didn't have that money.
What happened? There were some boards and meetings of medical experts from both of the countries justifying the emergency of my operations. They came to conclusion that the operation was indeed that urgent and that I couldn't go to my country and have it at that moment. So, the health insurance from my country paid for it. Can that happen in USA also?

For years I had to go to ER once a month to get two different painkiller injected. How much would that be?

I must do the lasik surgery. It's completely up to me when I'll do it but doctors are pushing me to do it as soon as possible. How much would I pay for it in USA? How much would my regular check ups at ophthalmologist cost? How much are contacts I need to change every two months?

A month or so ago, my boy had to have an emergency operation. I spent the first night with him in the room, my hb spent the second night. We paid nothing. If I was in USA on top of all that mess I'd have to think about paying for it.

When my son and DIL lived in England, she was constantly in praise of the health care system. But then, nobody in her family needed a liver transplant, either.

I don't get this underlined part at all

Yes, this was in the back of my mind when I raised my points with Designer above, and I think it is a fair position. People also come to European countries in this way; notably Munich is a favoured destination for medical tourism amongst rich Arabian and Russian clients, er, patients.

In my country (oh well, my second country) medical tourism is blooming for years. People get the same quality for much less money.

In the UK you would get the kidney transpant for free, I only have praise for the NHS my partner has had diabetes since she was 3 this year because of it she had to have a triple heart bypass 8 weeks later she was back riding her horse

 

[runnah]

I think that no other country use the "media weapon" as America does.

Honestly its the worst problem we have right now. The media has more power than the government when it comes to public opinion. What make its even scarier is that the are only 6 large corporations that own ALL of the media outlets in the entire country. You think they use that power to serve their own interests?

Anyways the real issue is that a large portion of the country still takes what they see on the news as fact and never go beyond that. There was a time when the media was all about fighting for the truth and what was right but now it's just about keeping advertisers happy and boosting ratings.The good news is that the younger generation have in a way subverted the system by not watching/reading the mainstream media and now rely upon outlets like twitter & reddit for their news. This is good because it cuts out the money hungry middleman but is bad because there is no real regulation.

 

[astroNikon]

I've lived and worked in Asia, Central America, Middle East, Europe, Africa and here is the USA. There are many many good places to hang your hat at the end of the day. I could have continued to lived and work in those places but I keep coming back here to California.

If I was restricted to only three descriptors for the USA they would be Freedom, Diversity and Opportunity ... for All. Freedom of choices ... from your clothing, to sexual orientation, to education, to the arts, to pretty much everything. This country is ruled by law, now by a ruling party. Our legal system is distinct and separate from other divisions of government. Per the foundation of this country, we are all treated equally under the law regardless of ruling party or wealth or religion or ethnicity. Those civil liberties and our choice to protect and enforce those civil liberties under rule by law ... are what make Americans ... Americans.

Freedom:
Read our Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Those documents are the backbone of our government, republic, democracy and of our people. Those two documents are what binds this country together. The Constitution is a living document. Every single day the interpretation is challenge ... sometimes for expansion ... sometimes for restrictions. The Constitution is a people's document, any citizen can challenge or enforce the Constitution in many different ways, through our courts or through our legislators. And we vote, we vote for everything many times a year. (Unfortunately we vote so often that it is being taken for granted.) We vote for local issues, regional issues, state issues and national issues. We vote for people to manage our schools to people to manage our water, to people to manage our law enforcement, our cities, et al. As an example of our reliance with the founding documents, our armed forces do not swear to protect American citizens or American property but rather pledge to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic...".

Diversity:
I live in Los Angeles, one of those crossroads of the world. Los Angeles is amazingly diversified. When I was a city commissioner, I entertain delegations from every corner of the world who just wanted to observe who so many cultures lived together and actually benefitted from close association. There are 92 different languages spoken in the Los Angles Unified School District.

Opportunity
My father was the son of an immigrant farm worker (actually he dug wells). My father attended a segregated school. My father was restricted to where he could purchase a house. My father served 40+ years as a California State Senator, creating legislation for the sixth largest economy in the world (at the time). My father has roads, parks and a high school named in his honor. Often my father would end his speeches with "... Only in America." (The defense rests on opportunity.)

Earlier I said there are many many fine places to live other than the United States ... and Canada is one of them. I've never lived in Canada, but I feel that there isn't that great of a difference between Canada and the United States. But there is in climate. For example, the best farm climatically area in Canada butts up to the worst farmland in the US.

I am writing this from the patio where it is presently 73F. Mary Lou is trimming the Plumeria, I just finished cleaning the filters on the Koi pond. When I scan the backyard there are roses blooming, bright red and yellow peppers, melons, squash and cucumbers ready for picking. The Persimmons are thick on the tree and ready for picking are oranges, lemons, avocados, berries, tomatoes, et al.

In winter a drop on another 10 degrees, in summer 15 degrees higher. But the evenings are always cool with minimal humidity, usually the air is dry as a bone here. The worst you can say is that the SoCal weather is benign ... the best is something like fantastic. San Diego, may just have the best weather in the world (IIRC 65F in winter, 75F in summer).

In California from Mt. Whitney, the highest peak in the CONUS, you can look straight down to the lowest spot on North America, Death Valley. We have glaciers and sand dunes, 800 miles of coast line, world class cities, our Central Valley is the bread basket of the United States, we have the oldest trees in the world (Bristle Cone Pine), the largest trees in the world (Sequoias), the largest organism that has inhabited the world swims off our coast (Blue Whale). We have the finest public university system in the world with arguably the the best public university, Berkeley and the best private university, Stanford.

In winter in Los Angeles, you can snow ski in the morning, surf or sail in the afternoon, catch a premier movie and dine at a five star restaurant ... all on the same day. Yosemite is considered to be the most beautiful area in the world and California Highway 1 is spoken to as the most beautiful road in the world.

In summary, I think the differences between Canadians and Americans is the very strong American patriotic spirit based upon our Constitution and Declaration of Independence. (I read somewhere that the US War for Independence was the first war declared to change how a populace was governed.)

The biggest difference is climate and ecological diversity offered by the United States.

Gary

(I friend told me that the difference between a Canadian and an American is that the Canadian is a little bit more boring.)

That's it.
I'm moving in with Gary and his wife.
who with me ?

 

[astroNikon]

I asked "what freedom" because the first thing that comes to my mind when thinking about USA certainly isn't that.
I'm aware that once I'm in USA I wont be able to go out if I want to lead a "normal" family life. As soon as I stepped on on your territory I'll be deeply in depths.
You're so bounded by financial bounds, mortgages, paying rates for everything and anything that I could barely feel "free" in your country because I'll be busy trying to earn enough of money so I could pay everything and sleep well.

The US is driven by marketing. marketing everything to everyone no matter what age (with limits). But companies seem to want people to buy something, then buy it again, and again - or the same thing just a bigger one all irrelevant if they actually need it. This is driven by greed in a way.

But anyways. Debt is driven by one's desires to have more. More of anything.
If you compare housing prices in Japan or Europe to the US you might be surprised
If you compare, say gasoline prices from Japan/Europe to the US you might be surprised.
Milk & cheese in Italy vs the US . go and compare commodity prices, you might be surprised

I always say I'm a nightmare to advertisers (and I used to work in advertising) as I don't give a wazoo if you (some product) are having a SALE until the end of the month. I'll buy something when *I* need it not because you (company) are trying to improve your monthly sales numbers.

I paid off my car. And I'm keeping it, I'm not buying a new, bigger more shinier one. That's saves money and lets me do other things with it (save, buy gold, buy a small carribean island off the coast of Argentina - stuff like that).

Savings rates across countries have been tracked, and the savings rates in the US are lower than other countries, japan, etc. But requires to purchase homes in various countries are different than the US, in Japan I believe you need a BIG chunk vs the US where you used to be able to getaway with ZERO down.

Of course Spain, Greece and other countries also go through economic, say, collapses in which they can start recovering. The US is like any other country,

Essentially what I'm saying is that You can live with little debt in the US.
It's all up to one person. YOU.

In my city, there was this old guy who lived in an old decrepid looking house about 1/2 mile from me. When he passed away and they started tearing down the house, they found jars, and jars, and jars full of gold coins hidden in the walls. Sometimes looks are deceiving and it's all depends upon what each person does with their income.

 

[Warhorse]

What country do you live in mmarie?