Making $ From Trade Shoot?

Discussion in 'General Shop Talk' started by DGMPhotography, Jul 28, 2019.

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  1. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    A quick bit of math shows that 350 people at seven dollars a month is $29,400 per year.

    I really do not think that one dollar per month is worth going after at low numbers of subscribers.


     
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  2. DGMPhotography

    DGMPhotography Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Woo boy, a lot to unpack here.

    First off, I don't shoot porn. I know you probably didn't mean that literally, John, but I don't think that's cool to say, regardless.

    received_2833679543312807.jpeg

    It's boudoir, and my intention has always been artistic. That said, maybe I am just insecure about it. I agree that I sound a bit hypocritical in saying that art should be seen, but I don't want it to be seen by my peers. I should be proud to show this work, but I am worried that my peers will just see lingerie, and decide that I am a pervert. For people who aren't involved in the arts, or don't understand the culture, then I can see why they may think that. What's wrong with trying to limit that from happening?

    I got my bachelor's degree in business, but no amount of courses or reading are going to make for a successful business. I think you have to find what works for you and your specific market. I think aside from a small number of people, you can't reliably make a living doing just one thing in photography anymore. To pay the bills, you've gotta take those headshots, product photos, etc. The reason I have several brands and websites is so that I can appeal to different markets and try to maximize my profits doing the thing I love - photography. My main focus is weddings, because in my experience, it pays the best, but I still take a large variety of work. Same reason I am doing video now as well.

    "Jack of all trades, master of none" is a phrase you've probably heard. But the full saying is actually "Jack of all trades, master of none, but often times better than master of one."

    This discussion has gone a bit off the rails, but I do appreciate everyone's input. You've given me some things to think about. I'll probably hold off on Patreon for now and reevaluate all of this. Thank you.
     
  3. tirediron

    tirediron Watch the Birdy! Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Sooooooooo.... you're shooting images that people are being aroused by and your approach is, "Well, might as well make a buck off it?"... ummm... sorry Darryl, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. I don't for a second think your intention is to create porn, but if you're going to take that approach, I honestly believe that it's going to hurt you.

    If this is, or you're worried about this happening, then these people are not your peers. They may be associates, people you know, or even relatives, but they're not peers.

    I have to admit, I'm puzzled by all these comments about retaining anonymity. Outside of a few photographers, almost none of whom I engage socially, my circle comprises primarily military & retired military folks, and people (almost exclusively male) from the trades, predominantly mechanics & HD mechanics. In other words, NOT creatives. They're aware of my work, and occasionally if one of them sees an image on my facebook feed they'll make a comment about an attractive female, but that's as far as it goes.

    Another side to this coin is your clients; it's not going to do your business a lot of good if people learn that you're not proud of your work. The #1 thing you have to be as an entrepreneur, especially in a creative field is a shameless self-promoter. "Hey, I'm Daryll... this is my work!" If I were a female client for whom you'd done boudoir work and I find out you're trying to remain anonymous, I'm going to think there's something wrong with the work, and I'm hardly likely to recommend or use you again.

    A BA in business is great if you want to work for a financial institution, insurance agent, etc. It does virtually nothing to set you up as an entrepreneur. Seriously, grab the Adult Ed catalogue from your local community college and see what you can find under small business management and entrepreneurship.

    I agree; I'm fortunate to live in a small town where people generally tend to expect generalization. I'm "the photographer"; I get calls for weddings, family work, headshots, events... name it. If I lived in a major center, it might be different, but for me, where I live, the generalist approach is the only option.

    On this, we disagree. Why? Let's say you've done a couple's wedding. They're very happy with the work. They also own a small business and want product photography done. Because they know you as a wedding photographer and NOT as a generalist, are they going to call you? Maybe, but in all probability they're going to look for a product photographer, and the one they choose might well not be you. I think it's fine to divide your work up into categories, but you need to make sure it all comes back to you. You want to people to think of your name when they need a photograph. Full stop.

    True, but sometimes it helps to take a bit of a circuitous route. I think you're a good photographer, you've got passion, but I think you really, REALLY need to re-evaluate your business approach.
     
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  4. DGMPhotography

    DGMPhotography Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I'm simply trying to maximize my revenue streams. But I agree that it feels perhaps a little scummy in this case. And probably not worth the effort. Plus, I do have to consider what people would think if they found out I was going that route. The model is appealing, though. Having people "support" your creative work, enabling you to do it more.

    I have to disagree with this. I can't close myself off from people just because they don't appreciate or understand my work. I don't want to live in an echo chamber. And many of these people are important to me in other ways, but not my target market for boudoir. Many of the models I've worked with on boudoir actually prefer that I have a separate/anonymous account too. We have many of the same mutual friends, and some of these models don't want people to see this work either. For instance, one model said she's always wanted to do boudoir, but her family would kill her if they saw it. We are simply tailoring our content to our audience.

    I have had wedding clients reach out to me asking, "hey, do you also do real estate?" It may not be super common, but I think if you do a good job for them, even if they know you as a wedding photographer, many will still ask you anyway. With Richmond being such a competitive market, I have to specialize, or at least have the appearance that I do.
     
  5. paigew

    paigew Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I haven't read the responses before mine, but I would not share the full albums. Only share your favorites.
     
  6. paigew

    paigew Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Yes this is porn and this is unethical. You are capitalizing on women's bodies without their explicit consent. I would absolutely 100% not advise doing this. This speaks volumes about your view towards women and I'm sure will be a huge turn off when clients find out you might sell a photo of them looking attractive/sexy to a porn site. My god. :*(
     
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  7. tirediron

    tirediron Watch the Birdy! Staff Member Supporting Member

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    In fairness Paige, I don't think there was ever any thought that Daryll would sell the images to a porn 'site, rather that he was postulating the idea of monetizing them on his own social media feeds to people who he knows are not looking at them to appreciate their artistic merits.
     
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  8. DGMPhotography

    DGMPhotography Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    You should read the thread before making a comment like that. And no one said ANYTHING about selling photos to a porn site. That's deplorable. I'm honestly stunned you have the audacity to make a comment like that about me without even reading the thread.

    The whole point of this was to learn and explore the options for sharing this type of work. We were all having an open, professional discussion, and you instead skipped the context and decided to make a judgment against me. For what reason? Are you hoping to score some SJW points? Your laziness is not an excuse to blatantly make stuff up about me. I support women, and have always fought for their respect and empowerment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  9. paigew

    paigew Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Oh, I get that. But it is still no different. He specifically said that he knows people will pay to basically get off on photos he takes of his models.


    OMG I READ THE THREAD!!! EESH! You said you want to make money off sexy photos you took of your clients by posting them to shady websites where people from other countries pay money to get off on them. Without consent from said models. I'm wondering why you don't see the issue here? What if I took a getting ready bridal photo and posted it there, or a maternity photo...or a graduating seniors photo? It is not okay to post any image you think you might make a buck off (from a perv) to a site designed to do just that. Your clients trust you, TFP or not.
     
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  10. paigew

    paigew Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I realize that your intent was not to bring harm (or pervs) to your models, but please take time to consider the point of a woman, a photographer at that, who often takes images like you are talking about...this is not okay and I do not think it will be in the best interest of your business. I'm not sure how old you are, but I find that a younger man with no wife or daughter might have a hard time seeing how wrong this is and how it damages the trust your models and clients have in you. Maybe picture an image of yourself being sold to a similar site, and knowing that men from around the world were paying money to get off on an image of you...without your consent, that you were not profiting off of.
     
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  11. DGMPhotography

    DGMPhotography Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    You clearly did not read the thread. At what point did anyone say anything about shady websites? Patreon is not a shady website, and your impression of that points towards your ignorance more than anything.

    The question I proposed was how to share boudoir work, and what the alternatives were. I also never said ANYTHING about doing this without consent. I specifically said "as long as they're okay with it." I mentioned it might be a matter of talking to the model about it, and giving them the same rights to do it as well. Additionally, I do have the copyrights, including right to sell if I wanted, to all photos, and that is expressed clearly in my contract which I go over with my models. As a courtesy I always give the model the option to review the photos and veto anything they don't like.

    The comment about thirsty dudes from Guatemala was anecdotal. Like I said, a model friend of mine gave me those exact words. The whole reason I was considering this was because of what she told me. She said about 1/3 of her audience is people who appreciate and support her artwork. The other 2/3 are "thirsty dudes from Guatemala." She said that those dudes are gonna make comments about her anyway, so it was empowering to her to take their money through Patreon. At least that way, they have to pay her, and she turned what could be an otherwise negative, objectifying experience, into a revenue stream. It'd be stupid not to. So that's where this thread came in. I came here seeking advice and insight on doing the same thing, but as the photographer. And wondered if there was any difference between paid and TF work.

    The way I said some things could have maybe been clearer, but I was playing the role of devil's advocate as I sought out answers. You don't know me, and I really don't appreciate you making comments like that about me.
     
  12. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    I really think you should be paying these models and create something more to the point. Patreon Has sort of become a softcore and boudoir Avenue, where people can pay a small amount per month for custom sets Of images which are not available to the general public.

    I really do not think TF photos is the right way to go. If you want to shoot softcore boudoir, Then hire some models and pay them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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