Making $ From Trade Shoot?

Discussion in 'General Shop Talk' started by DGMPhotography, Jul 28, 2019.

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  1. DGMPhotography

    DGMPhotography Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    From what I've learned from this discussion (from those who properly contributed), I would agree with you.

    I think if my goal was to make money off those photos, then I should be hiring models for the explicit reason of doing so. But, that's not really my goal, so I've concluded to just post my favorites from TF shoots on Instagram, and then just have a private portfolio for when people want to see the rest of my work. Again, the disconnect for me is that I'm used to always saying, "check out the rest of the photos on Facebook," so I was trying to find an alternative. The alternative, I believe, is just to not post them all.


     
  2. paigew

    paigew Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    This is great news.

    In response to your other reply, you are correct, I do not know you and I tried not to be too rude in my reply to you. I understand you were looking to hear other viewpoints and I respect that from you. I just wanted my response to portray what a huge issue I think (most) women would have with this. And not only a detriment to your photography business, but to photographers as a whole. We want our clients to trust us, fully :) Also, you don't want some mad model to start a viral #metoo post about you LOL that would just not be good for biz :p

    edit to add after re-reading my original reply. I don't think I was very rude. And people before me DID comment on the porn-like content of the website, along with you yourself stating shady peeps might be visiting. I'm just giving you a straight up "devils advocate" opinion here....not trying to be rude or disrespectful.
     
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  3. DGMPhotography

    DGMPhotography Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    What you said here is the issue. You are making assumptions about my view towards women. And I really don't think that's fair.
     
  4. paigew

    paigew Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Dude, I'm sorry....your thread suggests that you are taking boudoir photos (TFP) of women, and while you do have permission to share the images, you do not have explicit permission to sell the images to websites. Legally, I suppose you can do whatever you want because I'm sure your contract allows for use however you see fit. But ethically, I think you can see how this would be an issue or you would not have posted this thread.

    Facts: You want to sell images of scantily clad women to websites of questionable character (without their explicit consent). Specifically to sell images that appeal to buyers who would be using them in inappropriate, most likely, sexual ways. How is this not wrong? How is this something that someone respectable would do? A respectable photographer would line up a TFP shoot detailing the exact usage of these images, and possibly negotiate pay with the model. The issue is the women think you are using the images for social media and blogging purposes. Using them any other way without their consent, considering the image content, is unethical, especially given the image content.
     
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  5. DGMPhotography

    DGMPhotography Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Wow, you're really a piece of work. Twisting my words and everything.

    Again, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WITH THEIR CONSENT. I've said that multiple times. What about that is unclear?

    And again, I'm NOT selling anything to any website. Patreon is a social network for content creators.

    And I already explained the reason for this thread. If you're just going to pick and choose things to take out of context, then I see no reason to continue this discussion.
     
  6. paigew

    paigew Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Look I am not one to judge. In fact, even right now, I am not judging you. I'm just trying to bring to light what your comments imply and how they might be/will be/are taken by people with different views than your own. Which I thought was your purpose of starting this post?

    I have bolded your comments that I feel sound inappropriate coming from a professional photographer.

    While you do say that you have consent to share the images, your words, that you yourself typed make it sound like the consent was/is not all encompassing. And that you understand there may be some ethical issues with doing this, in this manner.

    Also this bolded comment implies that you previously thought it would be okay to use the images without explicitly outlining how the images would be used (being used for profit). Forgive me if I got the wrong impression from your posts.
     
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  7. vintagesnaps

    vintagesnaps Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Seems like a fine line... and questionable at best doing what you're doing. I guess Patreon has changed since I last looked at it.

    Making photos available 'out there' on Patreon, on social media, etc. of women in robes & lingerie, possibly nude or seminude where men overseas who want to look at those type pictures can find them is probably not what the models/subjects might expect you to do with their photos. At least it didn't sound to me that the subjects know, that the intent to do that was clear or in model releases. You've talked about trying to keep this discreet to put it mildly and have subjects who don't want their families to know. I wouldn't be surprised if their families end up finding out or seeing the photos, or if people in your world see what you don't want them to see or know that you're doing.

    This hardly seems like good business practice. I wouldn't have realized you had a degree in business, I thought maybe it was in another field, and there was a good point made about workshops, courses, etc. Even with a degree I've taken countless workshops, read journal articles in my field, etc. - learning never ends. You don't seem to be using or seeing the value of your background in business to find resources or in developing a photography business.

    I don't think what you're doing currently can be explained as art even if you're doing it in what you consider an artistic way, because it's for the subjects' personal use, it's not being done for any art purpose like submissions to juried exhibits, etc.

    It seems like you're shooting boudoir because you need the money. So maybe you need to figure out how you can make money without doing what seems to be demeaning to women in promoting your photography using intimate photos of them that they may not intend to be used in the way that you're doing. That's how to me it comes across anyway; you seem to be trying to justify doing something that you want to hide and certainly don't seem proud of.
     
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  8. DGMPhotography

    DGMPhotography Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I, apparently, am not good at articulating my point.

    I haven't and don't do boudoir for money. In fact, I usually spend money on these shoots. I don't think you can decide what art is and isn't. You don't have to submit your work to a museum to be considered art.

    I am always open and honest with the people I work with, and if I did do Patreon I would only do it if the model agreed to it explicitly. I am sorry if I was unclear on that.

    These are things I am ignorant on, so I came here seeking insight, not attack. For you to attack a person who is seeking to inform themselves seems counterproductive.

    I appreciate everyone's feedback. I've learned a few things, and like I said, decided on a course of action thanks to your comments. I am not going to say I am without flaw. If the way I said things came across as demeaning, then I apologize for that was not my intention. My goal is to support and encourage women, and I believe what I have learned here has helped me to stay on that course.

    Thank you everyone.
     
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  9. tirediron

    tirediron Watch the Birdy! Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Okay, I think this horse has been sufficiently tenderized. Everyone go out and take some photos!
     
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