Man on bench

[photojunky]

San Francisco, Union Square Park, 2000

 

[LizM]

Nice shot! Beard looks too neatly trimmed for him to be homeless. Hope he was just tired!

 

[Je-C]

That guy looks almost as content as the pigeon. hehe

 

[LaFoto]

I keep wondering about all your people photos: do you ask their permission?
If you do, the whole thing loses its spontaneity, of course, or are you so brave to take their photos first and only ask their permission later?
What about putting their photos up in the www?

I would so like to take more photos of people. But I feel extremely shy and inhibited as to taking someone's pic without their permission...

 

[hobbes28]

I carry a model release form with me and if I take someone's picture, I go up to them afterwards and ask if it's okay that I took their picture and see if they'll sign. Most of the time they do.

 

[photojunky]

I keep wondering about all your people photos: do you ask their permission?
If you do, the whole thing loses its spontaneity, of course, or are you so brave to take their photos first and only ask their permission later?
What about putting their photos up in the www?

I would so like to take more photos of people. But I feel extremely shy and inhibited as to taking someone's pic without their permission...

I ask permission about half the time and always carry a pocket of singles in exchange for the shot. But sometimes I feel if I ask for permission, it would ruin the shot.

I am photographed all the time by people hoping I make the slightest mistake so they can put it in the local paper, or sue me. One funny example would be shortly after 911. I was told, “Do not allow anyone beyond this point.” So of course the media attempted to pass and was turned back. Slightly annoyed they stood approximately 10 feet from me, cameras in hand. The moment I answered my cell phone, the shutters began to click. I appeared on the front page of the local paper. Now that’s news I thought to myself. I can give you some not so funny examples if you would like to email me privately.

I know the issue of the homeless persons dignity comes into play with many people. The way I see it is, why should I care about a person’s dignity, if the person being photographed could care less about his or her own dignity. There are thousands of good productive members of our society being photographed for the purposes of damaging their careers, political gain, or profit. But in this case it is perfectly acceptable.

I consider most of my photos of people photo journalism/documentary. It is a sign of the times and history of the city. My early homeless photos were formally titled, “bum photos” before political correctness came into play. They were of people who appeared to be the last of the hobo era.

I have never sold a single homeless photo, although I probably would if someone actually offered.

I’m sure I pissed someone off so lets hear it.

I actually had permission and gave the women a dollar. She turned away at the last second. . . I swear!

 

[errant_star]

The way I see it is, why should I care about a person’s dignity, if the person being photographed could care less about his or her own dignity.

Sorry tried to bite my tongue ... you did sort of ask for it anyways ...

Who do you think you are to pass judgement on a persons sense of dignity ... people possess many different value systems and hold certain things in higher esteem than others ... these people in many cases choose not to be a part of greater society and to tell you the truth I don't necessarily blame them, they make their own choices of course but the way I see it that in no way overides their rights to privacy, to pride or to a sense of dignity.

IMHO

I myself have declined having my picture taken by people and for varied reasons and it's nice to have the choice given to me ...

btw I have seen someone rip the film out of a camera when they had their picture taken without permission (I'm assuming), so it definately can be a touchy situation

 

[photojunky]

The way I see it is, why should I care about a person’s dignity, if the person being photographed could care less about his or her own dignity.

Sorry tried to bite my tongue ... you did sort of ask for it anyways ...

Who do you think you are to pass judgement on a persons sense of dignity ... people possess many different value systems and hold certain things in higher esteem than others ... these people in many cases choose not to be a part of greater society and to tell you the truth I don't necessarily blame them, they make their own choices of course but the way I see it that in no way overides their rights to privacy, to pride or to a sense of dignity.

IMHO

I myself have declined having my picture taken by people and for varied reasons and it's nice to have the choice given to me ...

btw I have seen someone rip the film out of a camera when they had their picture taken without permission (I'm assuming), so it definately can be a touchy situation

No need to apologize.

This is a political issue. As for the homeless making some conscience choice and deciding not to be a part of society, I believe is totally incorrect. In my profession, I have gotten to know many of the homeless very well. Sure, some are lost souls who have slowly drifted away from being functioning members of society, but the truth is, in my city many are low lives with long criminal records roaming the streets praying upon each other, and the unfortunate unsuspecting person who would have probably felt guilty if they had crossed the street in order to avoid their stench. Do you hold your breath as you pass by one? I usually do.

I always wondered why some hold in such high regards, a homeless person who refuses to go to a shelter when available, pisses and defecates for all to see on the sidewalk, and has a violent criminal record. If that is the value system/life choice you are referring to, then I believe I do have the right to photograph them.

Excuse me but I‘m getting worked up. What really pisses me off is when there is a big anti-war protest, and some young punk is screaming anti-war things in my face that I happen to agree with, in the hopes I will lose my temper and take a swing at him, so his buddies with the cameras can photograph me and attempt to sue me later. God I hate that but that is their right!

Anyway, it’s ok to disagree.

I checked my site and found that of the 37 shots of people, 22 of them gave permission. Would the below photo have been the same if I had waken up the man and asked permission?

 

[jadin]

I'm sorry but the prejudices you've come to have are outrageous. Homeless people aren't people who said, "hey! I want to live in a gutter for the rest of my life!" It's insanely arrogant to assume that about anyone.

Most homeless people have fallen on hard times, are struggling with addiction(s), have mental illnesses. The list goes on and on. Society has a way of looking down on people after they've put them in that position. It's totally unreasonable.

I really don't know what else to say right now, I just can't beleive the arrogance and prejudice of this thread. It's really quite sad.

 

[Je-C]

My assumption is that most homeless people put themselves in that situation. hard times you can only do so much for, but addictions should've been prevented and helped by family, friends, and themselves. Those who have mental illnesses can get help at some point, or are driven to be mentally ill after their lifestyle of homelessness. Society has a way of looking down on people after they've put them in that position? Society looks down on ANYONE different, from the homeless man to the punk with the mohawk to the openly gay and lesbian. It's not just the homeless that get looked at funny by others; EVERYONE gets looked at funny by others. Besides, everyone is prejudice in one way or another, to one degree or another. What do you want? We're human, we sin. BTW, I'm not yelling in caps, I'm italicizing and am too lazy to not use quick reply. lol

 

[jadin]

You've obviously never had a mental illness. People who have them many times are convinced that they don't want, don't need, or can't get help. The illness keeps them socially deadlocked.

They don't put themselves in that situation, maybe their house was foreclosed, maybe they couldn't pay the rent. Most of the time they are in an endless catch 22. To get a job you have to look presentable, to look presentable you have to have money. Addictions are a disease, go down to AA or NA and tell them to their face that they should've prevented it.

You must be pretty young, you're not only arrogant but much more sadly ignorant.

 

[Je-C]

lol Way to try to be offensive. Didn't work too well, but I'm not here to try to argue about the homeless. All I will say is that people have control of their lives, and family & friends have a responsibility to help those who don't want to be or don't think they need to be helped. Almost everyone that has an addiction has that choice to first start the drug they're addicted to. Everyone's addicted to something, in my mind. Coffee, fast food, sugar, smoking, drinking... nearly everyone has that choice to not do it in the first place. The only people I say don't have a choice are those who are stabbed with a needle full of heroin, or a baby of a crack addict, etc... there are a few situations where people don't have the choice to start the drug they're addicted to.

EDITTED: By the way, I'm done commenting on this subject regardless of the replies.

 

[photojunky]

Jading stated

“Society has a way of looking down on people after they've put them in that position.”

Im part of society as is everyone on this forum. Did I put them that position? I think not.


Je-C stated

“Society looks down on ANYONE different, from the homeless man to the punk with the mohawk to the openly gay and lesbian.”

Not true. SF is great example of people from all different walks of life living and working together in harmony.


All I am saying is, the homeless, regardless of how they got there, are subject to having their photos taking just as I am. So there! LOL!

BTW, if my photos upset you people, you must really be outraged by the late Miss Arbus. Didn't she call her subjects, "Freaks?"

 

[jadin]

I wasn't trying to be offensive. I'm trying to pound into your head how ignorant your viewpoints are.

People don't always have control of their lives. Many homeless people are completely alone in this world. No family, no friends. I think that's where your biggest misconception is. You assume there is someone who cares about them who will look out for them. When chances are their closest friends are other homeless people, or perhaps social workers.

While everyone is addicted to something, most people's addictions don't kill brain cells. Don't ruin lives. You ever see someone have withdrawls from coffee? Yeah it might seem bad to them, but it is absolutely NOTHING compared to some drugs. You ever see someone steal to get their next fast food fix? Your logic baffles me.

I'm not offended by photos of homeless people. In fact most of the time they are some of my favorites. The raw emotion displayed. I am offended however by arrogance. It is ugly...

 

[LaFoto]

Ooops, what have I done?
I meant "people photos" in general - which would include the two lovers in the park, for example...........