Missed opportunity

[panblue]

Lew, would a 'No Words' photo theme be useful?
The language we are using is a visual one. To roughly paraphrase Kandinsky from a long ago written book, it's less effective to critic one artistic medium with another, different one. The mode is fundamentally different. When we critique as visual artists, with words, we cease to be visual artists for the duration of that activity. We could instead call-and-respond with pictures.

Just an idea for the pot

 

[joshua_]

I'm very new to photography but wanted to say that I posted a few photos in hopes that others would help me learn. I look at photos from others here and learn a lot that way. So, I appreciate the photos and c&c of others as it helps me learn. As I progress I hope to return the favor.

I've long had another hobby where I'm on the other end where I'm able to help out others. One problem I see on the net in relation to my other hobby is that some folks seem to portray themselves as experts in all aspects. That makes it difficult for them to ask for help in areas where they might have. I think it's pretty easy to determine the folks who are truly students of something. I think part of the issue is the lack of true relationship on the net.

Anyway.... I appreciate the folks who post up photos and the folks who help with good c&c. So I appreciate the great photos for one reason and the not so great for another reason, but I appreciate them all.

 

[Derrel]

I don't think TPF is a very good place to post images for C&C if one hopes for C&C that goes very far beyond the technical and practical aspects of the photos themselves. This forum is populated mostly by beginning and intermediate-level photographers who are interested in "photography", more than they are interested in "artistry", or in creating art.

Honestly, if you say you are interested in "creating art", then I have little idea why you shoot so much street photography...to me that's more like "stealing images" than it is about "creating" anything...street scenes play out with zero input from the photographer...the photographer does not create much... he (and it's almost always a 'he') points a camera and presses a button, and the people in the photo and whatever it is that they are doing is frozen by the camera...that always seemed to me to be quite weak on the "creating" front, and much more along the lines of simply "capturing what is actually there". I don't consider street photography as art as much as I think of it as documentary photography.

Anyway...I do not think TPF is really geared toward "art" or "artistic" photography, or to "artistic expression" nearly as much as other places, like say, Deviant Art, where the actual word "art" is in the title of the forum. Quite honestly, I think that well,well over 95% of photography is in no way "art", nor "artistic", but is actually just simple, solid representational translation of the real world into photographic images. Photography does not have to be high art to be successful...unless one's stated goal is to create "art".

If one wants to indulge in esoteric discussions about fine art, a sports bar is not the place to hope to find engaging conversation about fine art...but an art gallery might be....know what I'm saying???

 

[TheFantasticG]

I know what I like to photograph and I know the types of photos I like to look at. I have very little interest in working/ looking outside that construct. I've learned the basics enough to practice the types of photography I enjoy. Ill spend a good portion of the remaining time tweaking settings, locations, etc.

I like to go out to look for bugs, photograph them, then share with others who enjoy the same. I enjoy watching the weather reports, radars, and setting up to maybe catch lightning on silicone, then share with others who enjoy the same. I've expanded the latter by attempting to integrate time lapse into it, but that is less than 6 degrees difference between what I was doing and something "new" ... Don't ask me to photoimmortalize people. I have no interest beyond capturing snippets of time that contain loved ones.

 

[The_Traveler]

Honestly, if you say you are interested in "creating art", then I have little idea why you shoot so much street photography...to me that's more like "stealing images" than it is about "creating" anything...street scenes play out with zero input from the photographer...the photographer does not create much... he (and it's almost always a 'he') points a camera and presses a button, and the people in the photo and whatever it is that they are doing is frozen by the camera...that always seemed to me to be quite weak on the "creating" front, and much more along the lines of simply "capturing what is actually there". I don't consider street photography as art as much as I think of it as documentary photography.

.know what I'm saying???

You are taking the word 'art' too literally.
I mean pictures that might actually carry some meaning or impact beyond a reproduction of what one can see.

Why are street pictures captured, converted (if done), edited, cropped to create something more than a random shot?
That's what I mean.

 

[The_Traveler]

Don't ask me to photoimmortalize people. I have no interest beyond capturing snippets of time that contain loved ones.

Didn't ask but there is something different from just capturing a technically correct image.

 

[KenC]

I don't think TPF is a very good place to post images for C&C if one hopes for C&C that goes very far beyond the technical and practical aspects of the photos themselves.

If you know of somewhere on the net that is, please let me know; I'd like to post there as well. Most images posted on here that are "out of the mainstream", for lack of a better term, get very few comments, including a lot of mine. I create several kinds of images, some more in the mainstream than others, and I post some of each. There are a few people on here, you included, who will delve into an abstract and venture an opinion about why it works or doesn't, but some of the experienced photographers don't. I'm sure some of this is just a matter of where one's comfort zone is. For example, I rarely comment on portraits because I don't do them and don't feel qualified to offer advice, and I also don't really enjoy looking at them, just as some of the portrait photographers would rather not look at an abstract. So, I agree that I'm not likely to get that much discussion of a lot of my stuff on TPF, but I'll still post images just to show what I do to anyone who might be interested.

 

[runnah]

I've been trying post as often as I get what I think is good stuff but have been really frustrated when stuff I posts gets zero feedback. If it's **** or if its decent let me know or give me pointers. I am to the point of not even bothering.
I try to at least comment on people's work, good or bad. Often I joke but I really try to be helpful.

Sorry if that is whining.

 

[TheFantasticG]

Didn't ask but there is something different from just capturing a technically correct image.

It was a figurative expression of words not meant to be taken literally. Regardless I still have no interest in photographing people or looking at people portraits.

 

[gsgary]

I don't think TPF is a very good place to post images for C&C if one hopes for C&C that goes very far beyond the technical and practical aspects of the photos themselves. This forum is populated mostly by beginning and intermediate-level photographers who are interested in "photography", more than they are interested in "artistry", or in creating art.

Honestly, if you say you are interested in "creating art", then I have little idea why you shoot so much street photography...to me that's more like "stealing images" than it is about "creating" anything...street scenes play out with zero input from the photographer...the photographer does not create much... he (and it's almost always a 'he') points a camera and presses a button, and the people in the photo and whatever it is that they are doing is frozen by the camera...that always seemed to me to be quite weak on the "creating" front, and much more along the lines of simply "capturing what is actually there". I don't consider street photography as art as much as I think of it as documentary photography.

Anyway...I do not think TPF is really geared toward "art" or "artistic" photography, or to "artistic expression" nearly as much as other places, like say, Deviant Art, where the actual word "art" is in the title of the forum. Quite honestly, I think that well,well over 95% of photography is in no way "art", nor "artistic", but is actually just simple, solid representational translation of the real world into photographic images. Photography does not have to be high art to be successful...unless one's stated goal is to create "art".

If one wants to indulge in esoteric discussions about fine art, a sports bar is not the place to hope to find engaging conversation about fine art...but an art gallery might be....know what I'm saying???

Garry Winogrand,HCB,Joel Meyerowicz,Alexy Titerenco all shot on the street and are very artistic

 

[gsgary]

I guess its a problem that once you're at a certain level people assume that what you show them is what you fully intended.

I think the best learning tool is to look at a picture and try to figure out why you like or - or don't.
That's what builds up one's personal understanding of composition and art in a way that is more more integrated with your 'responses' than just reading about Rules.

The Rules or Guidelines are attempts to codify simply how the largest proportion of people respond to certain arrangements of the elements in a picture.

It's the simply part that takes a lot of nuance out.

Here's one for you, i don't mind trying my hand at arty shots

 

[JAC526]

I think a lot of the critique on this forum consists of people parrotting easy to understand ideas (rule of thirds) without really considering why someone may have broken that rule intentionally.

Its like dogma. Its also easy and doesn't require a ton of thought or analysis.

 

[Overread]

I think a lot of the critique on this forum consists of people parrotting easy to understand ideas (rule of thirds) without really considering why someone may have broken that rule intentionally.

Its like dogma. Its also easy and doesn't require a ton of thought or analysis.

You know barring a very few sites which tend to be very small in population and very focused - I hear these exact same comments on several large photography forums. The fact is if you have a large community any content gets diluted you can't avoid that fact. This is especially the case when you've a a forum which has an active uptake of new members who are also new photographers. This constant influx doesn't keep the site from getting advanced, but it does mean that there are more non-advanced comments to be thrown around.

The real core problem comes from apathy of the higher level photographers. Mostly because they all know each other - already know most of the viewpoints each other will share and because they've lost that same sense of rapid leaning that they had when they were beginners. They tend to either go through a stage of being trollish on the site or just outright leaving (sometimes quietly sometimes after a big huff).

Most of them spread their wings fly off and then come back sometime later . Because the fact is this never ending search for the holy grail of critique just - well it isn't really out there in the net to be found. Its something you've got to build and if you're not prepared to build it, well, it just won't appear. Those in the know will avoid some subjects or will refrain from commenting (often sighting the fact that some newbies have challenged their viewpoint - disagreed- got defensive or just not even given any reply at all) and the knowledge gets held up.

I'm more than certain that we've a community here who are more than capable of advanced level discussions - the fact that these do happen now and then is a reason many still hang around the site itself. The thing is its more difficult than it should be to really get people to spark up and speak up.

Thick skin is oft something touted that newbies need to have when taking critique on their photos yet I can't hide the feeling that thick skin is also something "advanced" shooters need to have when being prepared to release their critique out into the world. It doesn't have to be a fight - in fact it never should be. But so long as photographers babying their photos clash with those doing similar with their own viewpoint/critique we'll continue to have friction.

 

[amolitor]

Mostly I deal with the problem of "too much technical critique" by offering mostly non-technical critique.

Over the last couple of months TPF has actually gotten quite decent at this, I like to imagine I have played a small role in that change, but that hardly matters. There's a small but persistent cadre that work at giving more artistic "does it work" critique, and that's valuable and good. It's our forum, just do what you want to see more of, and see if it sticks.

 

[The_Traveler]

Here's one for you, i don't mind trying my hand at arty shots

I wrote a response but how about posting it in its own thread?

Lew