Money, Money, Money, MONEYYY

[Heather Koch]

After reviewing your flickr, based on your quality of photos and the fact that this is a friend, I would quote them $500.

Technically, you will not really make money but you can add the photos to your portfolio.
That gives them the choice between hiring someone with your quality for what will be the lowest quote and them hiring a professional wedding photographer for much more.

Just make sure that you have a contract in writing, so everyone is on the same page.

Thank you, I appreciate that!


As a professional photo lab, where do you guys go to purchase your prints? I don't like mpix, shutterfly, etc. All those I was very disappointed in.

ProDPI
BayPhoto

Are you editing on a calibrated monitor? Are you ensuring that you convert the image to the correct colorspace? Are you making sure the images colors are all within gamut before conversion?

I use a macbook pro... lol

Which might be why you're not happy with the prints you're getting back.

I am happy with my prints now, I wasn't happy with my mpix or shutterfly prints. I bought a bunch at different spots to compare.

 

[vintagesnaps]

From what I saw on your pages I don't see professional looking photography yet - not that you can't get there someday but I see a need for a lot more practice and learning.

To me it seems like you have some good ideas but for example, the couple with the balloons - look how much ceiling is showing, those needed to be framed differently. At the outdoor party, the photos need to bring the viewers' attention to the subject without parts of other people in the picture etc. Notice your backgrounds when you're setting up and framing shots.

I see potential in your Etsy page where I could see those type photos as greeting cards, etc. if you ever wanted to try to sell at a craft show etc. The event and people photos are where you need I think better instruction than what you've gotten so far.

To learn about pricing and business aspects of photography try photographers organizations like American Society of Media Photographers or PPA. Watch for the Photo District News annual wedding issue. Photo Magazine | Professional Photography Industry News and Resources I'd look up established portrait and wedding photographers in your area - the quality of your work and pricing would need to be within range of what pros in your area are doing.

 

[jsecordphoto]

definitely biting off more than you can chew here. The people who will really lose on this deal are the bride and groom who won't get a chance to re-do their wedding. And I'm saying this to be honest, not hurtful

 

[KmH]

Since you are charging people, hopefully, you have a legally registered business there in Michigan, you're keeping good financial records, you're collecting and forwarding state sales taxes, paying use taxes, self-employment taxes, have liability insurance, etc:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/business/Guide_to_Starting_a_Small_Business_271487_7.pdf

Don't confuse gross revenue with profit.
If a client pays you $100 to $150 for a session and product, you have to deduct your business costs and cost of goods before you can determine if you made a profit, or didn't make a profit.
Whatever salary you pay yourself is a business expense. You probably don't realize it yet, but you have many other business expenses.
Most retail photography businesses, that do not have a studio, produce income at a rate of about 25% of revenue.

You mentioned $20 an hour as the rate for your time.
If you were paid $150 to do a shoot, and editing, that took 3 hours total, $60 of the $150 paid for your time.
That $150 also pays for the time you spent with the customer arranging the booking and doing the post shoot/editing customer contact. Lets call that another hour. So the first $80 pays for your time. By the time you subtract your other business expenses it's likely you lost money on the shoot.

75% of a retail photographers time is spent doing business tasks. The remaining 25% of a retail photographers time is spend doing photography for customers.
In other words, you have to charge so what your customers pay you covers 100 % of your time engaged with your business, not just for the shooting and editing time you spend on a customers session.

Print markup needs to be more in the line of 200% to 300%, at least.
Small prints get marked up a lot more than large prints get marked up.

For large prints I charged by the square inch.

I sold 4x5 chromogenic prints with a matte finish for $40 and 8x10 chromogenic prints with a matte finish for $75.
A 16 x 20 chromogenic print with a matte finish was $160 (320 square inches x $0.50 per square inch).

If the client wanted a lustre finish on a print, a print on metallic paper, a Gicleé print (high quality inkjet print), a canvas, a print on metal or acrylic, the more costly the print.
Mounting, matting and framing was of course extra too.

Several times over the years I have made posts that show the math that demonstrates a well run full time retail photography business needs an average sale of about $400 just to break even (no profit, but business expenses are covered). That assumes the photographer is willing to live on an income that is barely above the poverty line.

The average session sales goal I shot for was $2000 per session.
I expected to shoot 3 days a week out of a 6 day work week, and since retail photography can be a seasonal business I only expected to shoot about 40 weeks per year.
The other 3 (long) days were totally devoted to doing business marketing/promotion/maintenance tasks.

 

[beagle100]

definitely biting off more than you can chew here. The people who will really lose on this deal are the bride and groom who won't get a chance to re-do their wedding. And I'm saying this to be honest, not hurtful

From what I saw on your pages I don't see professional looking photography yet - not that you can't get there someday but I see a need for a lot more practice and learning.

definitely biting off more than you can chew here. The people who will really lose on this deal are the bride and groom who won't get a chance to re-do their wedding. And I'm saying this to be honest, not hurtful

I have to agree, your photos and experience do not indicate anything near "professional"
get some more experience before shooting weddings

 

[imagemaker46]

I read all the comments and have to say that they were very polite. This is a hobby, anytime you bring your mother along because she is creative, not sure why that really matters when shooting, would she point out things that look nice?

You aren't equipped to work as anything more than a hobby photographer at this point, walking into a wedding without 2 bodies and lenses is the start of a disaster, regardless of the fact they may have seen a few of your pictures and like them. One bad shoot at this point would be enough to kill any chance you might have of becoming more than just an amateur. I don't expect you are planning on making this a full time profession?

What I have read screams of someone who loves the idea, uses the word passion when describing photography and decided to buy a camera shoot a few things, family and friends tell you that you could do this for a living, so you flipped through a few books, watched a few videos and maybe took a class or two. Deciding that you're good enough to "play" professional without having taken the "real" time to acquire the skills and experience.

Rushing into anything without understanding all that goes into it, never a good idea, what's the big rush? Enjoy the hobby, once it becomes more than this, once you decide to take money for work, you will understand the stress that goes along with it.

 

[Heather Koch]

Thank you all for you time and consideration into this thread.

I definitely understand that the more experienced folks on here probably hate seeing young people on here with dumb questions because its become a job. And thats the last thing you want to do on your free time. So I apologize.

 

[imagemaker46]

Thank you all for you time and consideration into this thread.

I definitely understand that the more experienced folks on here probably hate seeing young people on here with dumb questions because its become a job. And thats the last thing you want to do on your free time. So I apologize.

You have nothing to apologize for. If you don't ask questions you never get better.

 

[Heather Koch]

Thank you all for you time and consideration into this thread.

I definitely understand that the more experienced folks on here probably hate seeing young people on here with dumb questions because its become a job. And thats the last thing you want to do on your free time. So I apologize.

You have nothing to apologize for. If you don't ask questions you never get better.

and I appreciate your constructive feedback. At this point I will probably opt out of the wedding. I may propose doing group shots and couple shots and leave the ceremony and reception to the pros...

 

[imagemaker46]

Thank you all for you time and consideration into this thread.

I definitely understand that the more experienced folks on here probably hate seeing young people on here with dumb questions because its become a job. And thats the last thing you want to do on your free time. So I apologize.

You have nothing to apologize for. If you don't ask questions you never get better.

and I appreciate your constructive feedback. At this point I will probably opt out of the wedding. I may propose doing group shots and couple shots and leave the ceremony and reception to the pros...

I don't shoot weddings, have only shot a few for friends. It's not that I don't believe I could shoot them, it's that people have very high expectations even if they say they don't, I also find being around annoying people counter-productive. I think stepping back and taking on some less stressful shoots would go a long way in gaining more positive experience for you.

 

[Heather Koch]

I agree completely. I know for my wedding when I get married, I will have very high expectations and want everything to be perfect, while keeping it genuine.

 

[gsgary]

Threads like this is one of the main reasons I didn't hire a photographer at my wedding in June

 

[imagemaker46]

Threads like this is one of the main reasons I didn't hire a photographer at my wedding in June

The wedding photographer I had when I got married 33 years ago was ok, but then half the guests were professional photographers, I think he may have felt a little overwhelmed.

 

[terri]

and I appreciate your constructive feedback. At this point I will probably opt out of the wedding. I may propose doing group shots and couple shots and leave the ceremony and reception to the pros...

Thanks for being so open to all the feedback you've been given, without taking offense and turning the thread ugly. Why not see if you could be a second shooter for whoever your friends might choose? Offer your services for free, meet up before the event to discuss expectations...then watch and learn while you take direction from the pro at the event. It would be invaluable experience for you, and your friends would get professional shots they deserve.

 

[Heather Koch]

and I appreciate your constructive feedback. At this point I will probably opt out of the wedding. I may propose doing group shots and couple shots and leave the ceremony and reception to the pros...

Thanks for being so open to all the feedback you've been given, without taking offense and turning the thread ugly. Why not see if you could be a second shooter for whoever your friends might choose? Offer your services for free, meet up before the event to discuss expectations...then watch and learn while you take direction from the pro at the event. It would be invaluable experience for you, and your friends would get professional shots they deserve.

Of course, I'm the one who asked for it

That is a great idea! Once I hear back about their budget, I'll help them choose a photographer And hopefully I can help.