Money, Money, Money, MONEYYY

[tirediron]

Of course, I'm the one who asked for it

You'd be surprised how often people forget that! For the record, most people here are very willing to help people who genuinely want to learn (such as yourself). Where some of us get frustrated is with the "I just got this camera as a gift; what settings should I use to shoot the wedding I booked for next Saturday?" crowd. Helping someone who is willing to learn, understands that perhaps their preconceptions weren't totally accurate and is open to change and accepting of advice from those who have already walked the road is, IMO, very rewarding.

BUT... before you go any further down this road, you must answer this question: What is the difference between a large pizza and a professional photographer?















The pizza can feed a family of four!

 

[vintagesnaps]

The only thing about being a second shooter is that a photographer probably would expect an assistant to be able to get the necessary assigned shots without supervision. Seems like you'll need to learn to do that first before you're assisting (and I don't think second shooting 'for free' is any better than shooting a wedding for free! not much anyway, it's still a paid job that many pro photographers do).

You probably would be better off to ask if you could observe or shadow for maybe just part of the day (maybe ask to see how they set up and observe how they photograph the formals for example). Or even ask if it would be okay to take some candids when the bride (your friend) is getting ready (if that won't make for too many people in a small space), or at the reception while guests are dancing etc. and it's a more relaxed fun setting.

 

[ruggedshutter]

The only thing about being a second shooter is that a photographer probably would expect an assistant to be able to get the necessary assigned shots without supervision. Seems like you'll need to learn to do that first before you're assisting (and I don't think second shooting 'for free' is any better than shooting a wedding for free! not much anyway, it's still a paid job that many pro photographers do).

You probably would be better off to ask if you could observe or shadow for maybe just part of the day (maybe ask to see how they set up and observe how they photograph the formals for example). Or even ask if it would be okay to take some candids when the bride (your friend) is getting ready (if that won't make for too many people in a small space), or at the reception while guests are dancing etc. and it's a more relaxed fun setting.

I agree somewhat but if the main wedding photog is used to handling a wedding by themselves then having someone tag along isn't going to hinder them much. Personally I would welcome someone along willing to work for some experience, even if I wasn't able to use their work. As long as they were respectful and willing to help out when needed then I would love to help someone get their feet wet.

I am glad that you have decided to let a pro handle the wedding. Honestly, a wedding is not the place to be figuring out your camera, settings or how a flash works. It's a fast pace day that will go by as fast for you as it does the couple. I usually have to remind myself to slow down several times during the day otherwise i'll run myself ragged by the end of 8-10 hours.

And believe me, crazy things will happen during weddings. I had a bride 90 minutes late getting to her room to change; had no makeup, hair not done, dress not on....then the bridesmaids left after the ceremony, even though they were told to stay for formals. Top it off it was 101°F and 110% humidity at an outdoor wedding.

 

[tecboy]

To me, wedding photography job is kinda boring.

 

[Vtec44]

You charge as much as your clients are willing to pay for your work!

To me, wedding photography job is kinda boring.

Well, you're probably doing it wrong then.

 

[Derrel]

Heather, I just skimmed through this thread, and I have to say, you are very cool under fire! Your level-keeled tone and attitude in the face of a multi-page onslaught of "Don't do it!" 's and "You're not ready!" 's was very impressive, very commendable. Threads that have begun almost exactly as you began yours have turned nasty here before, many times. You're one cool cucumber, which is a great personality trait to have. I looked through your Facebook galleries...you could probably handle a low-key, simple wedding I think, as long as nothing were to go wrong, and the light level was good, and so on.

 

[vintagesnaps]

As long as nothing goes wrong... well, that's the thing, I don't know that you can count on everything going exactly according to plan.

It seems like what some people are talking about would be mentoring more than working as an assistant/second shooter. You could see if the/a photographer would let you shadow them to observe and take some photos to learn.

Maybe if you got some good shots you could use those in a portfolio but you'd need to check into contracts and permissions; make sure the b&g are okay with you using photos you took at their wedding (so later they don't see your photos pop up on social media and wonder who let you in! lol). Of course you know the bride so it may not be a problem in this situation but you might as well start learning how to do contracts and releases etc. now since you'll need to learn it anyway.

 

[The_Traveler]

Shots from the past few months | Photography Forum

 

[The_Traveler]

I looked through your Facebook galleries...you could probably handle a low-key, simple wedding I think, as long as nothing were to go wrong, and the light level was good, and so on.

Although this will certainly make another fan for Derrel, it seems that the OP hasn't yet got the understanding of managing light and editing to handle the more demanding editing of a wedding ceremony.
This may be an uncomfortable thing to point out but the shots on this thread are what I base my opinion on.

 

[pixmedic]

I used to be a big naysayer to those who wanted to start doing weddings (or whatever) without the proper equipment in duplicates, and experience....but now I say, if you really want to do it, go for it! 'cause honestly, the fact is that people are not likely to be swayed by random anonymous people on the internet. Jump in and do your best, so long as you are prepared for best/worse case scenarios.
Heres the caveat though...I will say this much. as far as weddings are concerned, what can go wrong, will go wrong.
Lighting will be terrible, space will be cramped, people will get in your way, flashes will stop working, batteries will die, cameras will act up...all while you are trying to get that special shot that will only occur once during the wedding.
we bring backups of everything.. and i mean everything. two cameras, 6 flashes, 10 camera batteries plus a few chargers, 36 AA batteries for the flashes, tripod, monopod, light stands, 8 lenses....plus all the other misc. stuff that we might need.
and $#&% still goes wrong, so I end up running around fetching spare stuff so the wife can keep shooting as uninterrupted as possible.

Just be aware of your surroundings. If there is a rehearsal, GO TO IT! see how it will go down. if they give out pamphlets outlining what happens when, TAKE ONE!
cover your @$$. have a contract...whether your charging or doing it for free, doesn't matter. the biggest red flag in photography are clients that don't want to sign a contract. for us, no contract = no work. period. no exceptions.

if you are doing Formals (we always do...its my favorite part) make sure someone (usually from the bridal party, or whoever is arranging things) is designated to help wrangle people for the different group shots.
go over what the bride and groom want beforehand as far as specific shots go.

I really could go on for pages and pages outlining what we do before a wedding, but a lot of it involves gear you don't have so there's not much point except to tell you to take everything you have, just in case.
just go in as prepared as possible, both mentally and equipment wise, and by the time you are done with the shooting, editing, and delivery, you will have a pretty good idea if its something you want to continue doing.

 

[ruggedshutter]

I used to be a big naysayer to those who wanted to start doing weddings (or whatever) without the proper equipment in duplicates, and experience....but now I say, if you really want to do it, go for it! 'cause honestly, the fact is that people are not likely to be swayed by random anonymous people on the internet. Jump in and do your best, so long as you are prepared for best/worse case scenarios.
Heres the caveat though...I will say this much. as far as weddings are concerned, what can go wrong, will go wrong.
Lighting will be terrible, space will be cramped, people will get in your way, flashes will stop working, batteries will die, cameras will act up...all while you are trying to get that special shot that will only occur once during the wedding.
we bring backups of everything.. and i mean everything. two cameras, 6 flashes, 10 camera batteries plus a few chargers, 36 AA batteries for the flashes, tripod, monopod, light stands, 8 lenses....plus all the other misc. stuff that we might need.
and $#&% still goes wrong, so I end up running around fetching spare stuff so the wife can keep shooting as uninterrupted as possible.

Just be aware of your surroundings. If there is a rehearsal, GO TO IT! see how it will go down. if they give out pamphlets outlining what happens when, TAKE ONE!
cover your @$$. have a contract...whether your charging or doing it for free, doesn't matter. the biggest red flag in photography are clients that don't want to sign a contract. for us, no contract = no work. period. no exceptions.

if you are doing Formals (we always do...its my favorite part) make sure someone (usually from the bridal party, or whoever is arranging things) is designated to help wrangle people for the different group shots.
go over what the bride and groom want beforehand as far as specific shots go.

I really could go on for pages and pages outlining what we do before a wedding, but a lot of it involves gear you don't have so there's not much point except to tell you to take everything you have, just in case.
just go in as prepared as possible, both mentally and equipment wise, and by the time you are done with the shooting, editing, and delivery, you will have a pretty good idea if its something you want to continue doing.

^ That pretty much sums up wedding photography. $hit going wrong and running around trying to save the day while keeping your head on straight to be able to create amazing work for the couple without losing your own sanity in the process. Yup, that's wedding photography

 

[thereyougo!]

In my view you have to have waterproof underwear to be a wedding photographer. I couldn't do it. I've shot a few shots ay my elder brother's wedding, and just sent him the edited files as a brotherly gift some time after the event. You can have all the insurances in the world to be able to re-stage the event. But the bride and groom will always know in their heart of hearts that pictures weren't of the real thing.

Go with the bride and groom to see the photographers by all means, but they need to be the ones making the decisions for what they want. Emotions so often come into it and they need to feel for it, and having someone else there analysing it might break the thought process. You could certainly sit down with them to go through the photographers' portfolios, and at that point you could all see the selected photographer and see how amenable he is to you shadowing him. You need to be very much in the back seat in the initial meetings as much about choosing a wedding photographer is about chemistry between photographer and subjects. (IMHO, YMMV of course)

When my wife and I selected our photographer, (before my photography days) we didn't pick the cheapest or the one with the most elaborate portfolio. We picked the one that seemed to 'get' what we wanted from the day.

 

[MidnightUK]

I think Heather has been just great on here, well done and I hope you continue to post on this forum.

Useful things to remember Heather:
Every pro photograher started from nothing and had to learn. Always remember that anyone who gives advice once knew nothing, it makes it easer to cope with any comments or advice!

A pro photographer used to have a well known blog giving advice to other photographers about business and how no one should ever start shooting weddings until they were a perfect business person and a perfect photographer. They made money selling courses so people could achieve this perfection. Then I heard an interview with them and it turned out when they started booking weddings they booked in 6 or so, but in fact had never shot a wedding themselves before setting up the business and taking bookings...
They actually were very successful at shooting weddings. They also said they were very embarrassed now at their first sets of wedding photos as they were not very good.

I dont sugest going down the route of saying you are a pro and booking people in, but I do say take heart from this story overall.

- Talk to your friends. Not everyone cares deeply about photography on the way most on this forum do. Your friends may have other priorities and may still wish you to shoot. Make sure you show them photos you have already done, so they understand your level.

- Get some friends and dress them up in white or cream clothes or in suits or dark clothes and get them to be models for you. You can practice guiding them into poses, learning about white balance, about using backgrounds. Get them to model in friends gardens, in parks, by buildings, in sun and in shade and in rain if it rains where you live. Weddings take place in all places and in all weathers. If you can afford it, get a used wedding dress from a charity shop. Take lots of images in poorly lit places (most churches are pits of gloom) and under lights that have nasty colour casts so you can learn to work in that environment. All this can be lots of fun!

- Offer to do an engagement shoot for your couple, in the location of their wedding if possible. Its a good practice run and they can see what you are able or not to do.

- Remember that there are lots of other photography jobs other than weddings, don't think in too narrow a field at this point in your life
-- Police photographer
-- Advertising photographer
-- Fashion photographer
-- Product and catalogue photographer
-- Portrait, children, baby or schools photographer
-- Architectural or Industrial photographer

There are some great wedding photo examples here, very high end, but the photographers are very critical because of that. Well worth a look at their work though.
Wedding Photographer - FM Forums

Lots of luck

 

[Heather Koch]

Of course, I'm the one who asked for it

You'd be surprised how often people forget that! For the record, most people here are very willing to help people who genuinely want to learn (such as yourself). Where some of us get frustrated is with the "I just got this camera as a gift; what settings should I use to shoot the wedding I booked for next Saturday?" crowd. Helping someone who is willing to learn, understands that perhaps their preconceptions weren't totally accurate and is open to change and accepting of advice from those who have already walked the road is, IMO, very rewarding.

BUT... before you go any further down this road, you must answer this question: What is the difference between a large pizza and a professional photographer?















The pizza can feed a family of four!

Pizza can feed a family of four hahah! Thanks again!

 

[Heather Koch]

Heather, I just skimmed through this thread, and I have to say, you are very cool under fire! Your level-keeled tone and attitude in the face of a multi-page onslaught of "Don't do it!" 's and "You're not ready!" 's was very impressive, very commendable. Threads that have begun almost exactly as you began yours have turned nasty here before, many times. You're one cool cucumber, which is a great personality trait to have. I looked through your Facebook galleries...you could probably handle a low-key, simple wedding I think, as long as nothing were to go wrong, and the light level was good, and so on.

I very much appreciate that!

I used to be a big naysayer to those who wanted to start doing weddings (or whatever) without the proper equipment in duplicates, and experience....but now I say, if you really want to do it, go for it! 'cause honestly, the fact is that people are not likely to be swayed by random anonymous people on the internet. Jump in and do your best, so long as you are prepared for best/worse case scenarios.
Heres the caveat though...I will say this much. as far as weddings are concerned, what can go wrong, will go wrong.
Lighting will be terrible, space will be cramped, people will get in your way, flashes will stop working, batteries will die, cameras will act up...all while you are trying to get that special shot that will only occur once during the wedding.
we bring backups of everything.. and i mean everything. two cameras, 6 flashes, 10 camera batteries plus a few chargers, 36 AA batteries for the flashes, tripod, monopod, light stands, 8 lenses....plus all the other misc. stuff that we might need.
and $#&% still goes wrong, so I end up running around fetching spare stuff so the wife can keep shooting as uninterrupted as possible.

Just be aware of your surroundings. If there is a rehearsal, GO TO IT! see how it will go down. if they give out pamphlets outlining what happens when, TAKE ONE!
cover your @$$. have a contract...whether your charging or doing it for free, doesn't matter. the biggest red flag in photography are clients that don't want to sign a contract. for us, no contract = no work. period. no exceptions.

if you are doing Formals (we always do...its my favorite part) make sure someone (usually from the bridal party, or whoever is arranging things) is designated to help wrangle people for the different group shots.
go over what the bride and groom want beforehand as far as specific shots go.

I really could go on for pages and pages outlining what we do before a wedding, but a lot of it involves gear you don't have so there's not much point except to tell you to take everything you have, just in case.
just go in as prepared as possible, both mentally and equipment wise, and by the time you are done with the shooting, editing, and delivery, you will have a pretty good idea if its something you want to continue doing.

Thank you!!


Weddings were never my forte nor something I yearned to do but since I was asked I seriously considered it. This was my second time being asked to shoot a wedding. I turned down my cousins wedding because I simply wasn't in a place emotionally nor technically ready for a huge stress shoot then. But I feel as if I may be okay this time around. BUT among all of your guys's advice, I think I am going to opt out of the wedding and just offer them some engagements shots and anything outside the wedding they prefer. Other than that I will still be attending the wedding, so I'm happy either way for them

And of course I need more practice, though at 21 years of age i've been "shooting" since I was 15; it was merely a hobby up until this past year where I was getting many people telling me to charge them. I hate those words, "how much do you want." I never liked "charging" people nor telling them how much I wanted, because I didn't really know. But now that I have a "set" list of prices, its much easier but still difficult asking for people's money. I was never one to take from people, but at this point I know my efforts are worth something and if they're willing to pay... heck I'll take it

I'm just proud of how much I have learned in these past few years and working my way up to my dream gear. I started off with a pentax point and shoot camera and had many others from canon point and shoots, to nikon d3100, d5000, d5100, d90, d7000 and now d7100. Out of the bunch I think I learned my way around camera with the d90 and as I aspire to grow my next "dream" camera is a full frame, d750.

Also, I'd like to note that I really never wanted to get into people portraits because I just loved the natural feel about landscapes, etc. But as I grew, family and friends wanted "modeling" pictures, portraits of their grandkids, engagement shots, etc. So I knew I had to learn and learn somewhat quick, so from where I started, I definitely feel better about my photography and comfort level, but many many many more years to come for learning and experiencing new things.