My first DSLR for travel and street photography: D5600 vs D7200 vs EOS 77D

[rsmoraes]

Hello guys, I thank you very much for all the comments here on my thread.

I have hit the shops last weekend and have had the chance to hold and mess around with some of the models you told me about. I did not find the size or weight of the bigger cameras a problem (I don't know if I would have the same opinion if I was 10 years older, but we'll probably all be using lightweight mirrorless models in 10 years).

I'll probably stick with one of the bigger models since they will provide me the best cost-benefit. Per your suggestion I have looked into it and found some pretty sweet deals on used cameras near where I live, I'll be checking those on the next days...

 

[ac12]

You have some conflicting requirements that you have to prioritize.

• #1 (I'm not looking for a camera I could throw on my pocket) and
  #6 (I am feeling a little tempted by the APS-C mirrorless option, I like the idea of having the pancake primes, like the ultra-compact 20mm f/2.8 from Sony, something I could easily throw in my jacket pocket for a bar night).

I know, know, I contradicted myself there, my point with the first sentence is: features >> size
But if I could get a decent camera in a good size, that would be a

• #3 - "Besides, we all know that there is no such thing as a macro 16-300mm f/1.8-4 lens in a compact, something I could easily achieve if I acquired some different lenses for my DSLR or mirrorless along time."
  • This lens does NOT exist for APS-C or FF, and likely never will.
  • A combination of lenses might get you that range, but at a rather expensive price, especially a 300/4.

My point exactly, you are right when it comes to the 300mm f1.4, too expensive, but I could easily get something like equivalent to:

• a 28-300mm f3.5-5.6
• 2 very fast wide primes
• an ultra-wide such as 14-24mm f2.8
• a fast macro

I will be covered for most situations, something I would only be able to achieve with several compacts, which defeats the purpose. Let's suppose I buy all of those over a year and wait for good deals, this would fit nicely into my budget...

• #5 - For LOW light, you need to attack it in two ways:

• #1 - A camera with decent high ISO performance.
• #2 - Fast primes to compliment or replace your general purpose zoom. A pro zoom maxes out at f/2.8, and the consumer zooms are slower. Whereas a prime (like the 35/1.8) is at least a stop faster than the pro zoom and several stops faster than consumer zooms.
  • Note: the "cost" of using a fast prime wide open is shallow depth of field.
• The combination of both of these will do better than only using one method.
• Stabilization will only compensate for camera movement. It will NOT compensate for subject movement. So at a slow shutter speed, any subject movement will result in a blurred image.
  • Note, the 35/1.8 primes are NOT stabilized lenses.

1. Exactly, that is why I wanted the best low-light body I could fit into my budget
2. My lens of choice for the low-light situations would be the Sigma 30mm f/1.4, it is not that expensive, 2 stops slower than the pro-zoom, I'd like something wider for landscapes, but those are just too expensive, one can't have everything...

• #6 - A mirrorless will drain a battery much faster than a dSLR, so you WILL need to carry more batteries.

• My EM1 will drain a battery in 4 hours of heavy use, whereas my D7200 will go 2 DAYS. I went on vacation with 3 batteries for my EM1 (should have taken 4) and 2 chargers, and at night I had to charge all 3 batteries in 2 charging shifts. So based on your comment, that may kill the mirrorless camera for you.
• I do not know how COLD temp will affect how long the battery will run, but that may shorten the battery charge life on the mirrorless even more.

Thanks for sharing this experience, 4 hours of heavy use is indeed not much, that would definitely kill the mirrorless... Besides that, you're right, the operating temperature is supposed to matter, yesterday we were under -8C (17F)...

BTW, since you mentioned the temperature, what about the handling of a D7200 wearing gloves? Is it "handable"? Are the buttons and commands still usable? Any experiences? I mean, I really don't feel like taking my gloves out when it is below 4C (40F)

The only way that I know of to get a small size camera is to go mirrorless.
The mirrorbox on a dSLR constrains how small a dSLR can get. The D3500 series is about as small a Nikon dSLR as I know of. But you sacrifice functionality compared to a D7200, to get that small size.
But going mirrorless runs into the problem of battery performance/life in COLD temp.

There is no FAST macro lens, that I know of. All the macro lenses that I know of are somewhat slow for primes, f/2.8 and slower.

 

[rsmoraes]

You have some conflicting requirements that you have to prioritize.

• #1 (I'm not looking for a camera I could throw on my pocket) and
  #6 (I am feeling a little tempted by the APS-C mirrorless option, I like the idea of having the pancake primes, like the ultra-compact 20mm f/2.8 from Sony, something I could easily throw in my jacket pocket for a bar night).

I know, know, I contradicted myself there, my point with the first sentence is: features >> size
But if I could get a decent camera in a good size, that would be a

• #3 - "Besides, we all know that there is no such thing as a macro 16-300mm f/1.8-4 lens in a compact, something I could easily achieve if I acquired some different lenses for my DSLR or mirrorless along time."
  • This lens does NOT exist for APS-C or FF, and likely never will.
  • A combination of lenses might get you that range, but at a rather expensive price, especially a 300/4.

My point exactly, you are right when it comes to the 300mm f1.4, too expensive, but I could easily get something like equivalent to:

• a 28-300mm f3.5-5.6
• 2 very fast wide primes
• an ultra-wide such as 14-24mm f2.8
• a fast macro

I will be covered for most situations, something I would only be able to achieve with several compacts, which defeats the purpose. Let's suppose I buy all of those over a year and wait for good deals, this would fit nicely into my budget...

• #5 - For LOW light, you need to attack it in two ways:

• #1 - A camera with decent high ISO performance.
• #2 - Fast primes to compliment or replace your general purpose zoom. A pro zoom maxes out at f/2.8, and the consumer zooms are slower. Whereas a prime (like the 35/1.8) is at least a stop faster than the pro zoom and several stops faster than consumer zooms.
  • Note: the "cost" of using a fast prime wide open is shallow depth of field.
• The combination of both of these will do better than only using one method.
• Stabilization will only compensate for camera movement. It will NOT compensate for subject movement. So at a slow shutter speed, any subject movement will result in a blurred image.
  • Note, the 35/1.8 primes are NOT stabilized lenses.

1. Exactly, that is why I wanted the best low-light body I could fit into my budget
2. My lens of choice for the low-light situations would be the Sigma 30mm f/1.4, it is not that expensive, 2 stops slower than the pro-zoom, I'd like something wider for landscapes, but those are just too expensive, one can't have everything...

• #6 - A mirrorless will drain a battery much faster than a dSLR, so you WILL need to carry more batteries.

• My EM1 will drain a battery in 4 hours of heavy use, whereas my D7200 will go 2 DAYS. I went on vacation with 3 batteries for my EM1 (should have taken 4) and 2 chargers, and at night I had to charge all 3 batteries in 2 charging shifts. So based on your comment, that may kill the mirrorless camera for you.
• I do not know how COLD temp will affect how long the battery will run, but that may shorten the battery charge life on the mirrorless even more.

Thanks for sharing this experience, 4 hours of heavy use is indeed not much, that would definitely kill the mirrorless... Besides that, you're right, the operating temperature is supposed to matter, yesterday we were under -8C (17F)...

BTW, since you mentioned the temperature, what about the handling of a D7200 wearing gloves? Is it "handable"? Are the buttons and commands still usable? Any experiences? I mean, I really don't feel like taking my gloves out when it is below 4C (40F)

The only way that I know of to get a small size camera is to go mirrorless.
The mirrorbox on a dSLR constrains how small a dSLR can get. The D3500 series is about as small a Nikon dSLR as I know of. But you sacrifice functionality compared to a D7200, to get that small size.
But going mirrorless runs into the problem of battery performance/life in COLD temp.

There is no FAST macro lens, that I know of. All the macro lenses that I know of are somewhat slow for primes, f/2.8 and slower.

Yes, it's like I said in my last post, I've been handling them on the shops on Sunday and I did not find the big DSLRs like the D7200, D5600, and 80D uncomfortable or extremely heavy or bulky. Of course, I'll not be able to put them on my pocket, but I'm ok to live with the trade-off for now.

And about the macros, I think the faster one in the market today is the Tamron 60mm f/2 Di II LD IF Macro 1:1 SP AF, at least that I know of. It is, however, an APS-C lens, I don't believe there exists anything like it for the big-boys on FF.