My first DSLR for travel and street photography: D5600 vs D7200 vs EOS 77D

RVT1K · Jan 9, 2019

Since you keep focusing on low-light situations, I would suggest comparing and getting the camera body with the best high ISO performance. A fast lens will only go so far and, ultimately, will be limited by the camera body.

rsmoraes · Jan 9, 2019

RVT1K said:
Since you keep focusing on low-light situations, I would suggest comparing and getting the camera body with the best high ISO performance. A fast lens will only go so far and, ultimately, will be limited by the camera body.

According to DXO the better performance winner would be the D7200, but by a small margin. In other words, from what I have gathered so far, I would get a bigger low-light performance improvement from better lenses than from a possible D5600-to-D7200 upgrade.

I tend to focus in low-light because it is the real pain I have today. Like I said on a previous reply here, I want that 10% that my current compact, or a cheaper system, is not giving me.

P.S.: I am by no means comparing the sharpness and quality of a compact and a DSLR, I know most my pictures will look better with the DSLR, but that was not the part bothering me, I was ok with those, I want the low-light capabilities and DOF effect I could not get with that one.

Dao · Jan 9, 2019

If my primary focus is street photography, I will gear towards smaller camera. 1 inch sensor point and shoot from Sony or mirrorless cams from various manufacturers. Battery life is not really a big concern, you can always carry 2 to 3 mirrorless camera batteries with ease.

greybeard · Jan 9, 2019

The D7500 is lighter than the D7200, better low light performance.

DarkShadow · Jan 9, 2019

Any DSLR would be my last choice for street shooting or even travel.I would open your options to Mirrorless Micro 4/3 Olympus or Panasonic with the great lens selection including Fast small primes offer a nice light compact system with excellent IQ and some great features not found in any of the DSLR like post focus, focus stacking high res modes and so forth. I have the D7500 DSLR and Panasonic GX85 rangefinder style M/4/3 with a couple of Olympus lenses and one Panasonic lens.One of my Olympus is Prime 25mm 1.8 which is a fantastic lens, its sharp ,fast with great color rendering and i can tuck it under a coat jacket or in a large coat pocket if needed. My Panasonic GX85 with the prime leaves me wanting nothing, it renders beautiful images and the IBIS stabilizes all my non stabilized lenses and with the Panasonic stabilized lenses i get dual IS that work together in body and at the lens for some amazing hand holdable low shutter speeds which can keep the ISO down low for clean night street shooting. Just something you might want to consider as well.

rsmoraes · Jan 10, 2019

greybeard said:
The D7500 is lighter than the D7200, better low light performance.

D7500 body only costs around $300 more than D7200 body only here in Sweden, the difference is enough to get me from kit to nicer lenses, which will probably bring more improvements than the body upgrade.

Dao said:
If my primary focus is street photography, I will gear towards smaller camera. 1 inch sensor point and shoot from Sony or mirrorless cams from various manufacturers. Battery life is not really a big concern, you can always carry 2 to 3 mirrorless camera batteries with ease.

I agree with you when it comes to carrying the batteries, however:

batteries cost money (if the mirrorles body costs the same price but I have to add more $100 in batteries so that it can match the DSLR, is it really worth it?)
charging 3 different batteries usually takes more time and effort than charging just one, specially when you are in a hostel room with 4+ people fighting for the only available power outlet

DarkShadow said:
Any DSLR would be my last choice for street shooting or even travel.I would open your options to Mirrorless Micro 4/3 Olympus or Panasonic with the great lens selection including Fast small primes offer a nice light compact system with excellent IQ and some great features not found in any of the DSLR like post focus, focus stacking high res modes and so forth. I have the D7500 DSLR and Panasonic GX85 rangefinder style M/4/3 with a couple of Olympus lenses and one Panasonic lens.One of my Olympus is Prime 25mm 1.8 which is a fantastic lens, its sharp ,fast with great color rendering and i can tuck it under a coat jacket or in a large coat pocket if needed. My Panasonic GX85 with the prime leaves me wanting nothing, it renders beautiful images and the IBIS stabilizes all my non stabilized lenses and with the Panasonic stabilized lenses i get dual IS that work together in body and at the lens for some amazing hand holdable low shutter speeds which can keep the ISO down low for clean night street shooting. Just something you might want to consider as well.

Thanks for your opinion, I'll make sure to look into those!

Dao · Jan 10, 2019

I think something like this maybe helpful for batteries charging issue goes.
https://www.amazon.com/NP-FW50-Batt...pons&keywords=sony+rx10+battery+charger&psc=1

As for 3rd parties batteries. I bought and use OEM and 3rd parties Canon batteries before and did not have any issue. One of the 3rd parties batteries for my old 40D actually outperform the OEM. Of course, 3rd parties are not create equally.

Earlier last year I bought a Sony RX10 III and the Sony authorized retailer offer 2 free 3rd batteries (Vivitar brand) in additional to the OEM that shipped with the camera, they all works about the same.

I maybe lucky, but so far I have not have any issue with 3rd parties battery yet except saving some cost.

rsmoraes · Jan 10, 2019

Guys, I've been thinking.

I don't think I left my purposes really clear from the beginning, so let me rephrase it...

I'm looking for a camera to build a hobby for myself. I'm not looking for a camera I could throw on my pocket and take it out when I saw something worth photographing. I'm looking for a camera that would help me to get great pictures even from things that do not seem that worthy at first. Photography will be a good part of my trip, as important as comfort or enjoying myself. I'll probably be out photographing a lot, even in my own city, during weekends and just for fun.
Of course things like size and weight matter for me, I mean, no one wants to carry 8kg (20 lb) of equipment around for no reason, we want to be as comfortable as possible. On the other hand, I want to have affordable equipment that lets me explore this new hobby as fully as I can.
Some of you are telling me to go back to high-end-compacts. Well, I've had a compact, one of the best my money could afford in 2012, it gave great pictures but it is just not enough for me anymore. I could buy a better, modern compact, but those cost the same I would pay for a D5500, a D5600 or a Sony a6300 with equivalent lenses. Besides, we all know that there is no such thing as a macro 16-300mm f/1.8-4 lens in a compact, something I could easily achieve if I acquired some different lenses for my DSLR or mirrorless along time. My point is, the intercheangeable lens is more upgradable than a compact...
As for the mirrorless, besides the battery, I have nothing against them. Sensor size is another matter though.... There is this thing called physics that rules the tradeoff between size and DOF/SNR, something we cannot yet overcome with the current technologies... I would gladly go for a D750, an a7 III or any other full frame if I could, but it is just out of my budget... I could also get an MFT with a premium sensor that matches the D7200 SNR rating in high ISOs, but again, those are just too expensive...
I keep insisting on low-light performance because, since I live in Sweden we get very few hours of sun in the winter... if I am to use my camera only when there is enough light, that would be something around 9:00am-2:30pm, whereas a better system could give me at least one or two more hours a day considering dusk an dawn lighting. Besides, I should also be able to photograph well lit building facades and other things at night with city lighting... For these situations, I'll probably be needing to go to high ISOs to be able to take at least some shots without a tripod, so any extra stop I can get from the camera, stabilization, and faster lenses will help...
I am feeling a little tempted by the APS-C mirrorless option, I like the idea of having the pancake primes, like the ultra-compact 20mm f/2.8 from Sony, something I could easily throw in my jacket pocket for a bar night, a dinner with friends or other events to which taking a DSLR with a huge lens is not possible/comfortable... What can you guys advise me on this topic, any good cameras (i've been looking at the a6300)? I hear some people complain about the handling and gripping of small mirrorless cameras, and also about the balance when you put big lenses on those... do you have any experience you could share?

Reading again I realized I may have sounded a little cocky in some parts... I'm sorry about that...

Designer · Jan 10, 2019

I still favor the D7200 (or D7100, if you can find one) or, if you want to get a nice DSLR at an affordable price, would you consider a used camera? Of course, you need to be careful and examine the camera carefully, but fine, clean, excellent cameras are available. You just need to spend some time looking.

BTW: Don't go for the Nikon D7500. It does not have features comparable to the D7xxx line, and is more in line with the D5xxx line. Nikon should have named it the "D5700" if you get my drift.

I think a lightly-used camera by someone who has been careful of his equipment is worth serious consideration.

ac12 · Jan 10, 2019

Carry a spare battery. A spare battery is small and easy to carry.

With Nikon, if you want to get a AF or AF-D lens, you are stuck with the heavier D7200, as the lighter D5xxx and D3xxx do not have a body AF motor to drive the AF and AF-D lenses.

Weight can be a major concern. But only you can make that call. When I was younger, I could easily carry a 20 pound camera bag on a 2 week trip. Today, with age and injury, I can't do half of that.
If you are traveling or going hiking or similar, both weight and bulk becomes a factor.

For travel I switched from a D7200 + 18-140 to a micro 4/3 Olympus EM1 + 12-60. 40+% weight reduction and significant bulk reduction. And the reduction is even more with the lighter/smaller EM10.

For LOW light photography, get a fast prime, like a 35/1.8 or similar. In LOW light, a fast lens beats a high ISO body almost every time.
I have a fast prime as a companion to my GP zoom, specifically for use when the light level drops too far.

ac12 · Jan 11, 2019

You have some conflicting requirements that you have to prioritize.

#1 (I'm not looking for a camera I could throw on my pocket) and
#6 (I am feeling a little tempted by the APS-C mirrorless option, I like the idea of having the pancake primes, like the ultra-compact 20mm f/2.8 from Sony, something I could easily throw in my jacket pocket for a bar night).

I have a D7200 + 18-140 lens. It is nice, but definitely not compact and easy to carry, and will never fit into a pocket. That is why I got a m4/3 camera, for when I want something smaller.
- If the older AF and AF-D lenses are not mandatory, you can get a D3500/5600 with a small lens as your "compact" dSLR in the future, to compliment the larger D7200/7500. But I don't think they are pocketable, even in a LARGE pocket.

#3 - "Besides, we all know that there is no such thing as a macro 16-300mm f/1.8-4 lens in a compact, something I could easily achieve if I acquired some different lenses for my DSLR or mirrorless along time."
- This lens does NOT exist for APS-C or FF, and likely never will.
- A combination of lenses might get you that range, but at a rather expensive price, especially a 300/4.

#5 - For LOW light, you need to attack it in two ways:

#1 - A camera with decent high ISO performance.
#2 - Fast primes to compliment or replace your general purpose zoom. A pro zoom maxes out at f/2.8, and the consumer zooms are slower. Whereas a prime (like the 35/1.8) is at least a stop faster than the pro zoom and several stops faster than consumer zooms.
- Note: the "cost" of using a fast prime wide open is shallow depth of field.
The combination of both of these will do better than only using one method.
Stabilization will only compensate for camera movement. It will NOT compensate for subject movement. So at a slow shutter speed, any subject movement will result in a blurred image.
Note, the 35/1.8 primes are NOT stabilized lenses.

#6 - A mirrorless will drain a battery much faster than a dSLR, so you WILL need to carry more batteries.

My EM1 will drain a battery in 4 hours of heavy use, whereas my D7200 will go 2 DAYS. I went on vacation with 3 batteries for my EM1 (should have taken 4) and 2 chargers, and at night I had to charge all 3 batteries in 2 charging shifts. So based on your comment, that may kill the mirrorless camera for you.
I do not know how COLD temp will affect how long the battery will run, but that may shorten the battery charge life on the mirrorless even more.

rsmoraes · Jan 11, 2019

ac12 said:
You have some conflicting requirements that you have to prioritize.

#1 (I'm not looking for a camera I could throw on my pocket) and
#6 (I am feeling a little tempted by the APS-C mirrorless option, I like the idea of having the pancake primes, like the ultra-compact 20mm f/2.8 from Sony, something I could easily throw in my jacket pocket for a bar night).

I know, know, I contradicted myself there, my point with the first sentence is: features >> size
But if I could get a decent camera in a good size, that would be a

ac12 said:
#3 - "Besides, we all know that there is no such thing as a macro 16-300mm f/1.8-4 lens in a compact, something I could easily achieve if I acquired some different lenses for my DSLR or mirrorless along time."

This lens does NOT exist for APS-C or FF, and likely never will.

A combination of lenses might get you that range, but at a rather expensive price, especially a 300/4.

My point exactly, you are right when it comes to the 300mm f1.4, too expensive, but I could easily get something like equivalent to:

a 28-300mm f3.5-5.6
2 very fast wide primes
an ultra-wide such as 14-24mm f2.8
a fast macro

I will be covered for most situations, something I would only be able to achieve with several compacts, which defeats the purpose. Let's suppose I buy all of those over a year and wait for good deals, this would fit nicely into my budget...

ac12 said:
#5 - For LOW light, you need to attack it in two ways:

#1 - A camera with decent high ISO performance.

#2 - Fast primes to compliment or replace your general purpose zoom. A pro zoom maxes out at f/2.8, and the consumer zooms are slower. Whereas a prime (like the 35/1.8) is at least a stop faster than the pro zoom and several stops faster than consumer zooms.

Note: the "cost" of using a fast prime wide open is shallow depth of field.

The combination of both of these will do better than only using one method.

Stabilization will only compensate for camera movement. It will NOT compensate for subject movement. So at a slow shutter speed, any subject movement will result in a blurred image.

Note, the 35/1.8 primes are NOT stabilized lenses.

Exactly, that is why I wanted the best low-light body I could fit into my budget
My lens of choice for the low-light situations would be the Sigma 30mm f/1.4, it is not that expensive, 2 stops slower than the pro-zoom, I'd like something wider for landscapes, but those are just too expensive, one can't have everything...

ac12 said:
#6 - A mirrorless will drain a battery much faster than a dSLR, so you WILL need to carry more batteries.

My EM1 will drain a battery in 4 hours of heavy use, whereas my D7200 will go 2 DAYS. I went on vacation with 3 batteries for my EM1 (should have taken 4) and 2 chargers, and at night I had to charge all 3 batteries in 2 charging shifts. So based on your comment, that may kill the mirrorless camera for you.

I do not know how COLD temp will affect how long the battery will run, but that may shorten the battery charge life on the mirrorless even more.

Thanks for sharing this experience, 4 hours of heavy use is indeed not much, that would definitely kill the mirrorless... Besides that, you're right, the operating temperature is supposed to matter, yesterday we were under -8C (17F)...

BTW, since you mentioned the temperature, what about the handling of a D7200 wearing gloves? Is it "handable"? Are the buttons and commands still usable? Any experiences? I mean, I really don't feel like taking my gloves out when it is below 4C (40F)

ac12 · Jan 11, 2019

I was shooting in about 45F last night.
You can work the D7200 with THIN gloves.
Glove material must be tight knit. Loose knit catches on the control dials and you can turn the dial without realizing you did. Happened to me a few too many times, and I got rid of that knit glove. I have not found an ideal glove . . . yet.
Until I do, I remove my right glove when shooting, as I have not found a glove that gives me a good feel of the shutter button. I have been thinking about getting a shooting glove, where the trigger finger is bare, or a soccer glove.

Dao · Jan 11, 2019

For the cold temperature battery life issue. I remembered a forum member here mentioned that he kept spare batteries in shirt pockets close to his body to keep them warm. And swap them with the battery in the camera so that the batteries will not drain that fast due to low outdoor temperature.