My first wedding as 2nd shooter recap

[Ernicus]

One other thing I forgot to add. Shadows. In the practice I have done thus far, especially with studio style lighting, I have learned to erase or minimalize, or utilize effectively shadows. In this situation, there were huge shadows, almost perfect silhouettes on the walls, walls that were like ten to twenty feet away. Is there something I could have done to avoid that, or is that just how it is?

It's be better pictorally to show and ask, so I'll revisit the question when I have a picture I can post up to illustrate.

Change the angle of your flash. Find the areas in the room that a bounce in a certain direction works well...avoid those that don't. Honestly, it really is that simple.

Sometimes I'm not sure that my flash even did the shadows. I angled all over the place. Typically was up a bit, not vertical, or to the left about 45 degrees or straight out depending on what was there to bounce off. There were a few times I got it right, so it was not a total loss on the bouncing lessons. So, when practicing, I will write down angles and results so my brain can put the two together. At this point, I know most of my bounce directions, but can't say for certain on each shot. Again, this will come with time and practice I would imagine.

 

[Ernicus]

Walking into a wedding at your experience level (even as a second), and using a body you aren't used to.. and other techniques you didn't really have much time to practice for... I would say you are gutsy to say the least! Sounds to me like the Main was not really what I would call a pro, and that had to make it harder for you.

On the flash... an external battery pack will give you faster recycle times, longer period of shooting, and you won't have to deal with the heat issues in the flash that you mentioned. Most of the better flashes have connectors for them.

You don't want a Fong.. they are omnidirectional, and work best in small area with white walls.. so that all that light can be used. You want something more directional... something that won't waste so much light (which increases your recycle time, and overheating!) I like the Demb Bounce stuff Demb Flash Products - Flip-it! the variable-angle flash reflector... and also scoops like this.. Lite Genius Lite-Scoops home page. There are a lot of DIY articles on how to make bounce gear also... just google it.

Thanks for the recognizing of the guts. lol.

I'll check those links...I could see where a battery pack could have been useful if they aren't a pain to carry around. I only blew through 8 batteries....but recycle times did drag on nearing end of battery life, it was very noticeable.

 

[Kerbouchard]

One other thing I forgot to add. Shadows. In the practice I have done thus far, especially with studio style lighting, I have learned to erase or minimalize, or utilize effectively shadows. In this situation, there were huge shadows, almost perfect silhouettes on the walls, walls that were like ten to twenty feet away. Is there something I could have done to avoid that, or is that just how it is?

It's be better pictorally to show and ask, so I'll revisit the question when I have a picture I can post up to illustrate.

Change the angle of your flash. Find the areas in the room that a bounce in a certain direction works well...avoid those that don't. Honestly, it really is that simple.

Sometimes I'm not sure that my flash even did the shadows. I angled all over the place. Typically was up a bit, not vertical, or to the left about 45 degrees or straight out depending on what was there to bounce off. There were a few times I got it right, so it was not a total loss on the bouncing lessons. So, when practicing, I will write down angles and results so my brain can put the two together. At this point, I know most of my bounce directions, but can't say for certain on each shot. Again, this will come with time and practice I would imagine.

I generally point my flash behind me and to the left. In landscape mode, that works fine. In portrait mode, the SB600 cannot rotate to the required angle.

 

[cgipson1]

One other thing I forgot to add. Shadows. In the practice I have done thus far, especially with studio style lighting, I have learned to erase or minimalize, or utilize effectively shadows. In this situation, there were huge shadows, almost perfect silhouettes on the walls, walls that were like ten to twenty feet away. Is there something I could have done to avoid that, or is that just how it is?

It's be better pictorally to show and ask, so I'll revisit the question when I have a picture I can post up to illustrate.

larger softer light source will minimize that....

Spoken by somebody who has never shot a wedding reception. You can't always set up your shot and use a studio light. Most of the times, you just have to adapt and figure it out as you go. A wedding reception is taken with bounced flash, not studio lights...

WRONG! I have probably shot more weddings than you have.. but never as a second! I am not talking studio lights..... just getting the flash high enough to put the shadows low, and using a diffuser or bounce setup that will soften the light and minimize the shadows! Yes.. on a bracket, although I suppose some people are too cool to do that anymore!

 

[momo3boys]

Welcome to wedding photography! It is a chaotic job but I love it anyway. Dark is hard, but better than those stupidly decorated halls full of mirrors! Who thinks of these things!?! It sounds like you learned a lot of what to do and what not to do. As a second I spend most of my time telling people where to stand, where to look, taking the background shots etc.. I also spend a lot of time doing things that have nothing to do with photography. The make-up artist doesn't show up so I'm in, the hairstylist is going to slow, the mother of the bride is panicking and no ones else notices.. A wedding photographer's job is always varied! I'd be interested in seeing what the main guys shots looks like if he was literally shooting from the hip! That's just crazy!

As far as the flash goes; its a lot of practice. I ALWAYS use my diffuser. That should help with the strong shadows... Don't give up. Keep shooting and learning!

 

[Ernicus]

Change the angle of your flash. Find the areas in the room that a bounce in a certain direction works well...avoid those that don't. Honestly, it really is that simple.

Sometimes I'm not sure that my flash even did the shadows. I angled all over the place. Typically was up a bit, not vertical, or to the left about 45 degrees or straight out depending on what was there to bounce off. There were a few times I got it right, so it was not a total loss on the bouncing lessons. So, when practicing, I will write down angles and results so my brain can put the two together. At this point, I know most of my bounce directions, but can't say for certain on each shot. Again, this will come with time and practice I would imagine.

I generally point my flash behind me and to the left. In landscape mode, that works fine. In portrait mode, the SB600 cannot rotate to the required angle.

I noticed. lol. Many times I wanted to bounce it to the right in portrait mode. I did left and up a lot, left and angled I think is where I got lots of the shadows from.

 

[cgipson1]

Sometimes I'm not sure that my flash even did the shadows. I angled all over the place. Typically was up a bit, not vertical, or to the left about 45 degrees or straight out depending on what was there to bounce off. There were a few times I got it right, so it was not a total loss on the bouncing lessons. So, when practicing, I will write down angles and results so my brain can put the two together. At this point, I know most of my bounce directions, but can't say for certain on each shot. Again, this will come with time and practice I would imagine.

I generally point my flash behind me and to the left. In landscape mode, that works fine. In portrait mode, the SB600 cannot rotate to the required angle.

I noticed. lol. Many times I wanted to bounce it to the right in portrait mode. I did left and up a lot, left and angled I think is where I got lots of the shadows from.

A bracket solves that issue also.. you can rotate the flash to keep it above the camera... (and NEVER use bare flash!)

 

[Ernicus]

Welcome to wedding photography! It is a chaotic job but I love it anyway. Dark is hard, but better than those stupidly decorated halls full of mirrors! Who thinks of these things!?! It sounds like you learned a lot of what to do and what not to do. As a second I spend most of my time telling people where to stand, where to look, taking the background shots etc.. I also spend a lot of time doing things that have nothing to do with photography. The make-up artist doesn't show up so I'm in, the hairstylist is going to slow, the mother of the bride is panicking and no ones else notices.. A wedding photographer's job is always varied! I'd be interested in seeing what the main guys shots looks like if he was literally shooting from the hip! That's just crazy!

As far as the flash goes; its a lot of practice. I ALWAYS use my diffuser. That should help with the strong shadows... Don't give up. Keep shooting and learning!

I'm curious what he came out with as well. I can only imagine. I might get to see them, might not. Time will tell.

I did use the little pop out diffuser thing built into the flash, that helped. But didn't have anything else on me to diffuse per se.

 

[Ernicus]

I generally point my flash behind me and to the left. In landscape mode, that works fine. In portrait mode, the SB600 cannot rotate to the required angle.

I noticed. lol. Many times I wanted to bounce it to the right in portrait mode. I did left and up a lot, left and angled I think is where I got lots of the shadows from.

A bracket solves that issue also.. you can rotate the flash to keep it above the camera... (and NEVER use bare flash!)

I found I had to angle it more than I wanted to, if I did straight up, or straight left, it was too dark, so I moved it a click, either in or down, and then too bright sometimes...sometimes was ok. Amazing how one click had such an effect.

I thought of bracketing later and I practiced today and learned where the controls were and set up the custom menu, so I'll be ready to use that option more. I think that would have helped me a lot.

 

[Kerbouchard]

Bracketing exposure is not the answer. It needs to be right. Period. Either know enough to do it right or don't do it at all. Choosing a crutch like bracketing in the hopes that at least one is right is ridiculous.

Learn it...that way you won't have to worry about things like bracketing and when you see that special 'moment' develop in front of you, you won't have to worry about where you are at in your bracketing sequence.

 

[jamesbjenkins]

larger softer light source will minimize that....

Spoken by somebody who has never shot a wedding reception. You can't always set up your shot and use a studio light. Most of the times, you just have to adapt and figure it out as you go. A wedding reception is taken with bounced flash, not studio lights...

WRONG! I have probably shot more weddings than you have.. but never as a second! I am not talking studio lights..... just getting the flash high enough to put the shadows low, and using a diffuser or bounce setup that will soften the light and minimize the shadows! Yes.. on a bracket, although I suppose some people are too cool to do that anymore!

Charlie, you took the words from my mouth. A flash bracket is the best way I know to kill the weird shadows you get with a hot shoe flash when shooting portrait.

And OP, after reading your whole post, and several after, it all seems to boil down to this:

You were completely unfamiliar with the gear you were using, and your lead photog was also a n00b and therefore wasn't capable of directing or instructing you. This is both your fault and the lead's. He had no business bringing you on if he wasn't prepared to direct you properly. I'm sure you've learned the VERY hard lesson that wedding photography is not something to be taken lightly. A few dozen hours of practice from now, you'll be a lot better prepared to kill it next time.

I'm looking forward to seeing your shots.

 

[Ernicus]

Bracketing exposure is not the answer. It needs to be right. Period. Either know enough to do it right or don't do it at all. Choosing a crutch like bracketing in the hopes that at least one is right is ridiculous.

Learn it...that way you won't have to worry about things like bracketing and when you see that special 'moment' develop in front of you, you won't have to worry about where you are at in your bracketing sequence.

I was going to bracket some, but as a crutch as mentioned. Only to help me maybe get a shot or two right. So, I agree it's not a learning tool, or would not have been in my case, but a way to maybe get one right and review later on why.

I also didn't want to add more pictures in the way of 2 more for each 1, lol. what a nightmare later on sorting all that crap out.

I figured out there how to do the regular bracketing in camera easily enough, but not flash bracketing, another reason I figured I'd wait to see what that is for and why later on.

 

[cgipson1]

Bracketing exposure is not the answer. It needs to be right. Period. Either know enough to do it right or don't do it at all. Choosing a crutch like bracketing in the hopes that at least one is right is ridiculous.

Learn it...that way you won't have to worry about things like bracketing and when you see that special 'moment' develop in front of you, you won't have to worry about where you are at in your bracketing sequence.

Are you talking to me, or Ernicus? I was talking a flash BRACKET.. as in hardware! Not Flash Bracketing.... (Although Ernicus did mention that above I think!) and I do agree with you there.. flash bracketing doesn't work well at a wedding or other events...

 

[Ernicus]

Spoken by somebody who has never shot a wedding reception. You can't always set up your shot and use a studio light. Most of the times, you just have to adapt and figure it out as you go. A wedding reception is taken with bounced flash, not studio lights...

WRONG! I have probably shot more weddings than you have.. but never as a second! I am not talking studio lights..... just getting the flash high enough to put the shadows low, and using a diffuser or bounce setup that will soften the light and minimize the shadows! Yes.. on a bracket, although I suppose some people are too cool to do that anymore!

Charlie, you took the words from my mouth. A flash bracket is the best way I know to kill the weird shadows you get with a hot shoe flash when shooting portrait.

And OP, after reading your whole post, and several after, it all seems to boil down to this:

You were completely unfamiliar with the gear you were using, and your lead photog was also a n00b and therefore wasn't capable of directing or instructing you. This is both your fault and the lead's. He had no business bringing you on if he wasn't prepared to direct you properly. I'm sure you've learned the VERY hard lesson that wedding photography is not something to be taken lightly. A few dozen hours of practice from now, you'll be a lot better prepared to kill it next time.

I'm looking forward to seeing your shots.

While I appreciate your input, did you read the other thread that led up to this one? We all know I went in blind on the gear level, as I just received it the day of. lol. Sure I could have used my 3100 with the flash, but I don't think I would have come out any better under the circumstances. The true issue was not so much my gear, but the inexperience with this type of shooting. Yes, knowing my gear would have helped, don't get me wrong. That mixed with zero useful direction and my inexperience just spelled disaster. lol. While my posts show frustration, I am not that upset about it, as I walked away with many valuable lessons.


It's no ones fault that I was not prepared but my own. I knew that going into it. However I opted to accept and do it for the experience of what it is like. Sure the other photog could have helped me, had he not been a tool, but really that was not his job, and he was not interested in the least bit about having a second there. I was only there because the photog company had a contractual obligation to fill and my photog buddy recommended me.

So there is no arguing I was not ready. Well, not ready to shoot alone...I think I am ready enough to experience it as a second...with guidance. That is what led to fail on this one, not counting my own inexperience...was the lack of guidance.

But really I am not looking for blame or fault. I was looking for learning. I got it. Even if it was learning what not to do, which is just as valuable at times.

 

[Ernicus]

Bracketing exposure is not the answer. It needs to be right. Period. Either know enough to do it right or don't do it at all. Choosing a crutch like bracketing in the hopes that at least one is right is ridiculous.

Learn it...that way you won't have to worry about things like bracketing and when you see that special 'moment' develop in front of you, you won't have to worry about where you are at in your bracketing sequence.

Are you talking to me, or Ernicus? I was talking a flash BRACKET.. as in hardware! Not Flash Bracketing.... (Although Ernicus did mention that above I think!) and I do agree with you there.. flash bracketing doesn't work well at a wedding or other events...

I thought you meant bracketing, my bad. Whats a flash bracket? well, I guess I can google it.