New Lens or just a whole new camera?

adiandrea · Dec 30, 2010

Hey everyone, this is my first post here.

The reason I am posting is because I am trying to decide what sort of investment I want to make with my camera equipment.

I currently own a Nikon d50, and its been a great camera, but I recently started doing some low light action shooting for a ballet company, and my camera just wont do it. because of this I invested in a nikkor telephoto (Telephoto AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D Autofocus Lens) to see what it could do for me, and I got it at a fantastic price. After purchasing this lens, I regret it a bit because its so limited on the distance I can be from my subjects. I am looking to get some truly crisp shots of the action, and time after time Im getting blur, even with the new lens. You cannot use a flash for live ballet photography because its distracting to the dancers.

So my question is, is my d50 up to the challenge of taking crisp non grainey photos, and I just need a different lens? or do I need a new camera that can get a high iso without all the grain?

Any suggestions people have would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

flea77 · Dec 31, 2010

First off, the 85mm 1.8 is an excellent lens, and if it has enough reach should be an excellent choice for your needs. Shooting moving subjects in the dark is a two pronged approch, there is no single silver bullet. You need a body AND lens to make it work.

If the reach will work with that 85, you should next consider upgrading the body to something that can shoot a little faster ISO. You can follow along the lines of D80->D90->D7000->D700->D3 depending on how much you want to spend. For those you can shoot roughly at 1600->3200->6400->12800->25600 ISOs with those respective bodies.

So lets say with the 85 at 1.8 you are currently shooting at 1600 (crazy high on a D50 IMO) and getting 125th. A D80 would equal that but give higher quality images, a D90 would let you shoot at 3200 ISO at 250th, a D7000 would get you ISO 6400 at 500th, a D700 gets you better looking ISO 6400 at 500th or ISO 12800 at 1000th.

I would think that in ballet 500th would stop most action pretty well so a D7000 would be an awesome addition to that 85mm. You could also really push a D90 to get that but the results will not be that great (still much better than what you have mind you). Of course I am completely guessing at the 1.8 1600 ISO 1/125th starting point, you would have to plug in your own numbers to see how it would really work for you.

Hope this helps.

Allan

PatrickCheung · Dec 31, 2010

I recently shot a concert for my school's band using the D200 at around iso1000, getting shutter speeds of 1/100-1/320 at f2.8 (depending on the lights they used)... the images were noisy and somewhat blurry, but acceptable. at iso1600 they were extremely noisy, but still somewhat acceptable if you shot in the right light, and I got shutter speeds of around 1/200-1/500. The D200 isn't a bad camera (as long as you can find one in good physical shape... mine's all nasty and the grips are coming off), they go for aorund $300-500... sometimes with CF cards and extra batteries... sometimes even with grips if you find the right deal. However, it's still "old" technology. The d60 handles noise better than it does, in my opinon. That said. a brand new D90 can be had for arond $650 if you find the right deals. It apparently has better noise control.

:] I recently picked up a D7000 because my Dad wanted a video camera. It's noise control is amazing. I swear, under the right light, iso6400 on this thing produces as much noise as I'd get on my D200 at iso 400 :O. At iso6400, you should have a fast enough shutter speed to capture "crisp" images, as long as you expose for the spotlight (assuming they have spot lights in ballet... all i've ever seen of ballet was in the movie Black Swan... and it creeped the hell outta me!)

I've also seen/heard amazing things about the D700 and D3s if you're willing to spend that much.

Jcampbelll · Dec 31, 2010

In most cases I would suggest lens but in you situation I would go for the D90 or D7000 depending on your budget. You will see better noise control, also the quality will be better if you crop it.

For minimizing noise do the following: Get the exposure right in camera! If you underexpose in camera and brighten it on your computer you will see a ton more noise. Second, there is some great software that will reduce the noise that you do have, I use Lightroom 3.

djacobox372 · Jan 1, 2011

The 85mm f1.8 is a good choice, if you need more zoom you might consider a 70-200mm f2.8 AF-S VR or 80-200mm f2.8 AF-D. Both are about 1.5 times slower then the 85mm, which will only make the shutter speed problem worse.

The 80-200mm cost 1/3rd as much as the newer 70-200mm, the only drawback being focus speed and lack of VR--but with fast "subect freezing" shutter speeds, VR is not necessary.

If you want better low light performance then you'll need a camera upgrade.

I'd recommend a D90 or D7000 if you can afford it. The D90 will be about 2.5 times better in low light, the d7000 is about 3 times better.

There is also the full-frame D700, which is nearly 4 times as good in low light as the d50, however it's full-frame sensor will widen your shots--making the subjects seem even further away then they are now.

adiandrea · Jan 3, 2011

Thanks so much everyone! I was at Costco today and saw the d90 and got to play with it, but I'm also going to check out the 7000.

adiandrea · Jan 3, 2011

Also, I wanted to ask you all where you normally shop for cameras? I'm just curious to see how some prices compare.

KmH · Jan 3, 2011

I shop online, and I mostly buy used gear.

www.bhphotovideo.com
www.keh.com
www.amazon.com
www.adorama.com

For what you want to do you need the ISO capablities of the D7000.

The 85 mmm f/1.8 can be used on full frame bodies so if you can afford it I'd recommend a used D700 over the D7000.

flea77 · Jan 3, 2011

I second all the places Keith mentioned to get equipment, they are all great.

One thing Keith said that I disagree with is getting the used D700. A D700 is a great camera, and it does have slightly better ISO capabilities over the D7000. I would not recommend it because you are already complaining about the distance you can be from your subjects with the 85mm and getting a D700 over the D7000 will make that problem exactly 1.5 times worse (D7000 has a 1.5 crop factor making your 85mm act like a 128mm 1.8 lens, while on the D700 which has no crop factor it will act like an 85mm 1.8).

Allan

djacobox372 · Jan 3, 2011

flea77 said:
I second all the places Keith mentioned to get equipment, they are all great.

One thing Keith said that I disagree with is getting the used D700. A D700 is a great camera, and it does have slightly better ISO capabilities over the D7000. I would not recommend it because you are already complaining about the distance you can be from your subjects with the 85mm and getting a D700 over the D7000 will make that problem exactly 1.5 times worse (D7000 has a 1.5 crop factor making your 85mm act like a 128mm 1.8 lens, while on the D700 which has no crop factor it will act like an 85mm 1.8).

Allan

Agreed, D7000 also has slightly higher resolution then the d700, allowing you to crop the image further extending the range that much more.

adiandrea · Jan 4, 2011

What do you guys think a good price for both a used or brand new d7000? A lot if places I see are sol out, or are on eBay and sell with multiple lens kits, which I'm not sure I need...

Light Artisan · Jan 4, 2011

$1199 for the body only
$1499 for the body w/18-105 lens

flea77 · Jan 4, 2011

Light Artisan said:
$1199 for the body only
$1499 for the body w/18-105 lens

Dead on. One thing to watch for is since the D7000 is so hard to come by the market is being assaulted by grey market versions (which you can't get warranty work done on in the US) and scalpers trying to sell bodies only for $1500+. I got tired of it all and tired of waiting, went to Best Buy, bought the kit with the 18-105, never opened the lens box and sold the lens without ever unpacking it. Problem solved!

Allan

gsgary · Jan 5, 2011

Get a used D700

flea77 · Jan 6, 2011

gsgary said:
Get a used D700

Why would he do that and lose his crop factor, and also lose MP so he could crop closer.

D7000 = 16MP and 1.5x crop
D700 = 12MP and no crop factor.

OP was already concerned that his 85mm was not getting him close enough with the 1.5 crop, now you want him to lose that too?

If he gets a D700 he will have a wonderful camera and a beautiful picture of a dot in the middle of the image that might actually look like a ballet dancer if you look at it just right. :lol: