Nicely Denying Digital File Sales.......

[OnTheFly7]

Alternate scenario:

I would like to buy some digital files from a professional in Arizona. His SmugMug page lists only 5x7 prints, but no 8x10 prints or art papers. If he printed them the cost of mailing prints would have to be added to his price for printing.

Instead of his printing and shipping, if he could shoot me the electronic files, I would be willing to pay a reasonable price per shot. If I could score the files, and print them myself, I would save the cost of handling and shipping.

The last print I bought was an odd size, so I had to make a custom frame for it.

Alternate scenario:

I would like to buy some digital files from a professional in Arizona. His SmugMug page lists only 5x7 prints, but no 8x10 prints or art papers. If he printed them the cost of mailing prints would have to be added to his price for printing.

Instead of his printing and shipping, if he could shoot me the electronic files, I would be willing to pay a reasonable price per shot. If I could score the files, and print them myself, I would save the cost of handling and shipping.

The last print I bought was an odd size, so I had to make a custom frame for it.

I fully grasp the concept of pure profit on offering the digital files. That is one of the reasons that I started to offer social media sized images for purchase. However, even if I did offer the sell her the full size, full rez file, it will be quite a bit more than the $40 she would spend at Wal-Mart. By the time she buys the file from me, has the canvas made at Wal-Mart, she could have purchased the canvas from me for less.

present that same argument to her.

I get yhat

Great remarks and thoughts.

Update.......

She emailed me once again stating that she wants the file, because she can get a canvas print made at Wal-Mart for $40, rather than pay what my pricing is for canvas.

I fully grasp the concept of pure profit on offering the digital files. That is one of the reasons that I started to offer social media sized images for purchase. However, even if I did offer the sell her the full size, full rez file, it will be quite a bit more than the $40 she would spend at Wal-Mart. By the time she buys the file from me, has the canvas made at Wal-Mart, she could have purchased the canvas from me for less.

I am finding this to be more and more of an issue with the younger (I'm not that old, 38) generations who want everything now, want it for free and think if they whine loud enough, they will get their way.

I can understand most side of the arguement here, but for me, it is also coming down to principle. I find it extremely rude to ask someone for a file for cheap, when they never paid a session fee, just to go somewhere else to get what they want. To me, that is unethical on the consumers part. Goes back to my working retail days in the outdoors industry for smaller pro shops. Someone would buy a bow or a reel at some big box store, not know how to use it (or have an issue with it) and then they would come to us to show them (because the big box store who sold it to them had no idea) and they would expect free service on a product they purchased else where.

I just don't get the thought process~

I get that your primary business at this event wasn't selling prints to folks..

But for event coverage photography charging north of $40 for a file is absolutely absurd. The market won't support it, as your situation has proven.

I'll say it again: the average going rate for a full resolution file from a sporting event in the northeast is anywhere from $15-25. And I've found that even at $25 they don't sell because they're viewed as too expensive.

Unless you're shooting an event with some very affluent people, asking $40+ for a file from an event isn't going to happen. Period.

Agree with most points.

But.......

When you are traveling in a 4 stall horse trailer with living quarters that runs north of 6 figures, being pulled by a new dually that runs norht of $70k, running and maintaining livestock and horses, whether the market bears it or not, to try to play the cheap card just isn't going to cut it with me.

Fortunately, my income from other segments within the industry helps to offset this segment. Therefore, I do not feel the need to lower prices simply because someone asks. Do it once, and you will be fighting that fight the rest of your days.

 

[Braineack]

It seems like youre the one fighting the laws of economics to me. It's great you're in a position that you don't need to sell the files. Then simply don't.

 

[pixmedic]

its interesting, the different viewpoints on this.
we sold mostly digital files because thats primarily what our clients wanted for sharing on webpages and social media.
but photos of people that see your prices beforehand and then ask you to do the work are different than someone seeing a random photo and wanting to buy it.
does it matter if its all profit? not really. why should the photographer lower the value of their work just because of its profit margin? why is the photo worth less because there are no other buyers currently lined up to purchase it?
if the OP has placed a value on the digital file and is ok with losing the sale by sticking to that price, then I think thats just fine.
I wouldnt do portraits for $40 just because people called me and said they could get that price on FB or Craigslist, and from what I have seen most people here would absolutely turn down that work because the price does not reflect the quality of their work and time....so why is it different in this case simply because it is an existing photo? the OP still had to take and edit the photo the same as if it was a comissioned piece.

 

[KmH]

She emailed me once again stating that she wants the file, because she can get a canvas print made at Wal-Mart for $40, rather than pay what my pricing is for canvas.

Questions to ask the customer.
• Does Walmart print on actual canvas. Or does Walmart prints on plastic textured to mimic canvas.
• Is the Walmart print going to be delivered mounted on stretcher bars, or shipped rolled up in a tube.
• If on stretcher bars, what kind of wood and what size stretcher bars?
• Does the customer understand how much of the image is going to be wrapped 'around the corner' of the stretcher bars?

A large part of the problem many photographers have today trying to sell prints is that the photographer isn't well informed about print making or print presentation.
The other problem when it comes to selling prints is trying to sell prints online.
Effectively selling prints requires having physical samples to show and selling in person.

 

[Gary A.]

I have a digital frame ...

 

[KmH]

Good for you.
My digital image files are $50 each regardless.

 

[Flash Harry]

When you are traveling in a 4 stall horse trailer with living quarters that runs north of 6 figures, being pulled by a new dually that runs norht of $70k, running and maintaining livestock and horses, whether the market bears it or not, to try to play the cheap card just isn't going to cut it with me.

This is why I quit pro-photography six years back, cheapskates want it all for zilch and too many digi togs are prepared to let them have their way, tell them you aren't selling and you'd rather delete the file than ever give them it, nobody got negatives back in the day.

Anyone trying to make a living these days is under-valued by the machine gun 'professionals' out there topping up their own jobs meagre wages by competing on the cheap with people who've sunk their lives into being a legit business, I'd rather be retired than be insulted, bl**dy walmart, stick to your guns.

 

[Braineack]

i can hear the dinosaurs dying right now.

 

[Destin]

i can hear the dinosaurs dying right now.

Yep. Adapt or die.

All those guys that stuck with film are doing great. Right kodak?

 

[KmH]

i can hear the dinosaurs dying right now.

Yep. Adapt or die.

All those guys that stuck with film are doing great. Right kodak?

Do you guys make the vast majority of your income from selling your photographs?

 

[Flash Harry]

i can hear the dinosaurs dying right now.

Yeah I'm a dinosaur who made plenty dough working that way, think back to 2001 when I charged $20 for a 7x5 in strut mount and sold hundreds per wedding on the night after the 'do' by hand printing one shot while showing 'proofs' I had done at 'walmart', now think about the 10x8 and bigger, I wasn't running my ass off through the week wondering what to spend 40 bucks on that I'd got for my negs, 2004 I turned digital and it took only a few months to see where the photography game was heading thanks to 'togs' like you and Destin and a lot more I met on here around those times, you want to be part of the cheapo economy, I don't.

 

[tirediron]

...it took only a few months to see where the photography game was heading thanks to 'togs' like you and Destin and a lot more I met on here around those times, you want to be part of the cheapo economy, I don't.

Steady on mate; there's no call to get nasty about this! I suspect that a whole lot of wet-plate photographers said more-or-less the same thing when that young whippersnapper Kodak came out with that new-fangled roll-film. "WHAT? Loading more than one frame in the camera at one time? That'll be the death of photography!" The profession survived....

At the end of the day, times and the whole profession have changed. Like it or not we have to adapt or give up; there really isn't a third option. That does NOT mean however that we can't try and educate clients and show them the benefits of prints over digital. I sell VERY few digital files to my family customers; in fact I would say that it's probably 90-95% print sales over digital files.

 

[Flash Harry]

...it took only a few months to see where the photography game was heading thanks to 'togs' like you and Destin and a lot more I met on here around those times, you want to be part of the cheapo economy, I don't.

Steady on mate; there's no call to get nasty about this! I suspect that a whole lot of wet-plate photographers said more-or-less the same thing when that young whippersnapper Kodak came out with that new-fangled roll-film. "WHAT? Loading more than one frame in the camera at one time? That'll be the death of photography!" The profession survived....

At the end of the day, times and the whole profession have changed. Like it or not we have to adapt or give up; there really isn't a third option. That does NOT mean however that we can't try and educate clients and show them the benefits of prints over digital. I sell VERY few digital files to my family customers; in fact I would say that it's probably 90-95% print sales over digital files.

I'm not getting 'nasty' I'm telling it like it is to people who are undercutting others in their area who have no other option than to cut prices and offer similar packages to those already working in other fields. I adapted, it cost me a lot more money to change to digital and nowhere near the returns I made with film precisely because of weekend warriors and 'customers' like the one the OP has who obviously has the money to pay for a canvas from the poster but is a cheapskate and wants the file for pennies.

I carried on till 2012 as a pro but called it a day because I wasn't commissioned to supply files though everyone and their granny expected those as 'Everybody else does it', those 'everyone elses' are like those above who wouldn't like me telling their bosses I'd do the same job as them for half the price which is basically what they're doing, its little wonder the workforce across the west appears to be on a race to the bottom where income is concerned yet they cant see the reason why, this is the reason and only the wealthiest are profiting from it.

 

[Destin]

i can hear the dinosaurs dying right now.

Yep. Adapt or die.

All those guys that stuck with film are doing great. Right kodak?

Do you guys make the vast majority of your income from selling your photographs?

No, I don't. But I very likely could if I didn't have a great career that I love. I have a registered business. I have liability and equipment insurance. I shoot with professional equipment.

I don't really see how that is relevant. If I do a senior portrait shoot for $350 and give the client files, and you do a senior shoot for $500 that includes a print package, who made more money? Neither. We probably both made the same because you have lots of product cost tied up in the prints. If I can make the same amount of money for less work and less taxes paid, then why wouldn't I? It's just sound business.

You sell your client prints and they're just going to scan them and post them online and reprint them anyway most of the time, so the argument that they'll come back to you for prints in the future doesn't really hold water anymore.

You're all free to run your businesses how you want. But to imply that photographers who adapt and sell clients what they're asking for are "ruining the industry" is hogwash. Fauxtographers who sell all the digital files for $75 and put out subpar work while carrying no insurance and paying no taxes on their photo income are hurting the industry. Legitimate photographers who are simply selling the client the product they're asking for aren't hurting anything, except maybe the ego and income of photographers who refuse to adapt.

 

[Flash Harry]

My ego not bruised, like I stated the problem is everyone with a digital camera is now a pro-photographer come the weekend and whether you like it or not its harmed the industry, I pulled out because of that as I can't afford to compete here in the UK with some kid offering to do a wedding with all files on disc for 200 quid, even those who mess them up, its not even worth getting out of bed for and I sure as hell ain't going to pay insurances/taxes etc on top of what I've already lost on renewing gear every couple of years, it just wasn't worth it.

I jacked it in back then and another local took my place, high st studio, lots of gear etc etc, he's gone to the wall already. Business is to make money, not to do with 'something you love' oh its a bonus if you enjoy what you do but first and foremost its about success and when your success is being undermined its time to cut and run.