Nikon 11-16 Wide angle Lens

[fmw]

That does nothing to detract from the fact that you don't NEED the flash to be off camera for it to be effective.

sent by synchronized cardioversion

I'm not talking about effectiveness. I'm talking about image quality. The flash can fire wherever it is. It can't make modeled images when located at or very near the lens.

 

[goooner]

That does nothing to detract from the fact that you don't NEED the flash to be off camera for it to be effective.

sent by synchronized cardioversion

I'm not talking about effectiveness. I'm talking about image quality. The flash can fire wherever it is. It can't make modeled images when located at or very near the lens.

Am I missing something here, if the flash is on or near the camera, and is bounced off the ceiling, the 'source' of the light will be the ceiling, from the camera/subjects point of view. You guys are talking in circles.

 

[pixmedic]

That does nothing to detract from the fact that you don't NEED the flash to be off camera for it to be effective.

sent by synchronized cardioversion

I'm not talking about effectiveness. I'm talking about image quality. The flash can fire wherever it is. It can't make modeled images when located at or very near the lens.

you obviously have no clue about bounced flash, and have yet to address this issue.
there were two different types of flash usage being talked about here, one where the flash is near the lens, which you are very wrong about also.
(see: portraits taken with ring flash)
the other, is where the flash is bounced off a wall or ceiling.
both are capable of producing good images.
a speedlight on the camera, bounced off a wall or ceiling is perfectly capable of producing good images.
ive already shown this in my example, and how it makes no difference whether the flash is on or off camera.
for bounced flash, the location of the flash has zero effect on image quality, because the light is diffused by being bounced off a wall or ceiling. the location of the flash is largely irrelevant.

 

[pixmedic]

taken with a speedlight mounted direct to my camera, bounced off the ceiling

DSC_0994 by pixmedic, on Flickr

 

[480sparky]

Shoe-mounted flash:

 

[fmw]

That does nothing to detract from the fact that you don't NEED the flash to be off camera for it to be effective.

sent by synchronized cardioversion

I'm not talking about effectiveness. I'm talking about image quality. The flash can fire wherever it is. It can't make modeled images when located at or very near the lens.

you obviously have no clue about bounced flash, and have yet to address this issue.
there were two different types of flash usage being talked about here, one where the flash is near the lens, which you are very wrong about also.
(see: portraits taken with ring flash)
the other, is where the flash is bounced off a wall or ceiling.
both are capable of producing good images.
a speedlight on the camera, bounced off a wall or ceiling is perfectly capable of producing good images.
ive already shown this in my example, and how it makes no difference whether the flash is on or off camera.
for bounced flash, the location of the flash has zero effect on image quality, because the light is diffused by being bounced off a wall or ceiling. the location of the flash is largely irrelevant.

It is as though one has to write a book in order to avoid people misunderstanding a post. I agree with everything you said. My comments about bounce flash were simply that the light doesn't have to be attached to the camera. Someone suggested that one good use of a camera mounted flash was bounce flash. I agree. But I don't use camera mounted flash myself and I explained that bounce is not only possible but easier for me with a hand held flash unit. You obviously know that already.

My comments about image quality were about lights located near the lens, not bounce flash. I've been roundly criticized for stating that flash units mounted near the lens produce poor modeling and lousy images. You won't talk me out of that notion. I have way too much experience. Someone else suggested that a pop up flash was a good way to trigger outboard strobes. I disagree. The pop up flash will reduce the quality of modeling. A bounce flash would be fine, of course, but pop up flashes don't do bounce flash.

A photographer who wants the best image quality should never, ever use the pop up flash. Not ever. Not even once. A photographer should never ever use a camera mounted flash unit of any sort except for bounce flash. Those who do bounce flash with a camera mounted light should try hand holding the flash unit. They may prefer the flexibility it affords just as I do. Like me, they may give up camera mounted flash altogether.

I realize that the pop up flash may be necessary to catch something quickly. But that isn't the best image quality. I understand that pop up flash may be fine for things like forensic photography, as an example. That isn't about image quality. It is about recording evidence.

Hopefully that provides enough context to defend my positions fairly.

 

[fmw]

That does nothing to detract from the fact that you don't NEED the flash to be off camera for it to be effective.

sent by synchronized cardioversion

I'm not talking about effectiveness. I'm talking about image quality. The flash can fire wherever it is. It can't make modeled images when located at or very near the lens.

Am I missing something here, if the flash is on or near the camera, and is bounced off the ceiling, the 'source' of the light will be the ceiling, from the camera/subjects point of view. You guys are talking in circles.

Not I. You are correct.