Nikon D5100 problems

[MTVision]

Is this directed at me? You realize I am just getting the OP to properly expose a photo with more ideal settings, correct? Trying them to do an exercise in manual mode to learn a little bit about the exposure triangle rather than continue on the same trend of "small aperture, slow shutter speed, high ISO". I didn't once say that ISO 100, f/4, 1/xxx seconds is the only exposure for the scene, but it's a lot better than 55mm, ISO 1600 @ f/7.1, 1/40s. As a matter of fact, I calculated a different exposure at a higher ISO to eliminate camera shake in the post before last, so it's pretty clear I myself understand exposure.

If that wasn't directed at me, please disregard.

No not at you Tyler! I would hope you know more than I do, which you do!

 

[o hey tyler]

Is this directed at me? You realize I am just getting the OP to properly expose a photo with more ideal settings, correct? Trying them to do an exercise in manual mode to learn a little bit about the exposure triangle rather than continue on the same trend of "small aperture, slow shutter speed, high ISO". I didn't once say that ISO 100, f/4, 1/xxx seconds is the only exposure for the scene, but it's a lot better than 55mm, ISO 1600 @ f/7.1, 1/40s. As a matter of fact, I calculated a different exposure at a higher ISO to eliminate camera shake in the post before last, so it's pretty clear I myself understand exposure.

If that wasn't directed at me, please disregard.

No not at you Tyler! I would hope you know more than I do, which you do!

Gotcha dudette! No worries! :hug::

 

[marcdax]

@ O hey Tyler : No , you got me wrong. If I say that i set the shutter first , I mean that i f.e. set my shutter at 1/125 and that the camera gave me (f.e.) f 7.1 or the other way around.
I know it would be silly to set S an than go to A . I know that i have to be on M to adjust them both .
But thanks for mentioning it

@EchoingWhisperer : AF-s is set on my camera.
And everybody says NOT to set iso on auto.

I know for those pictures f/11 is maybe a little to low , but I was talking in general.
And the same in Automode or P mode (if you look at the 2 triumphphotos). They aren't really sharp.

F.E. like this picture is shot with an D5100 (courtesy Ken Rockwell) and i saw other pictures on reviews that are really sharp also (tested with kitlens)

And thanks for the answers !

 

[fjrabon]

@ O hey Tyler : No , you got me wrong. If I say that i set the shutter first , I mean that i f.e. set my shutter at 1/125 and that the camera gave me (f.e.) f 7.1 or the other way around.
I know it would be silly to set S an than go to A . I know that i have to be on M to adjust them both .
But thanks for mentioning it

I know for those pictures f/11 is maybe a little to low , but I was talking in general.
And the same in Automode or P mode (if you look at the 2 triumphphotos).

F.E. like this picture is shot with an D5100 (courtesy Ken Rockwell) and i saw other pictures on reviews that are really sharp also (tested with kitlens)

And thanks for the answers !

That was shot in mid day, perfectly clear sun, by a pro, with (who likely has steadier hands than you). Overcast v. mid day clear sun will make a huge difference in perceived softness/sharpness. The camera itself has almost nothing to do with how sharp your pictures are.

 

[marcdax]

Okay , i can see what you mean
I just keep asking , the only way I'm going to get it right.

1.Can i set the noise wrong ?
When i enlarge my pictures they all look unsharp , like with noise , kinda blurry.

2. I've taken a look at all the pictures i've taken on Automode.
What got my attention :
All of the pictures have like the shutter very low , even if the iso(always around 800) is not that low
F.e. normal day , not cloudy but not sunny , the exif was f/9 , 1/30 iso 800
another one was iso 800 , 1/20 , f/8 , not the most sunny day , but not heavely clouded (you can see brightness on the left)
Lens was the 55-200 , shot at 135mm.

3. I have a question about this picture :
distance (taken on a rooftop , that on the picture is also on a rooftop) about 60 meters
f4.5 , shutter 1/1000 , iso 100 , lens (42-150) largest at 150mm
Do you think this is sharp , looking at the data of the exif.
And why is this one not blury or noisy when expanded to full size ?

thanks again

 

[MTVision]

Okay , i can see what you mean
I just keep asking , the only way I'm going to get it right.

1.Can i set the noise wrong ?
When i enlarge my pictures they all look unsharp , like with noise , kinda blurry.

2. I've taken a look at all the pictures i've taken on Automode.
What got my attention :
All of the pictures have like the shutter very low , even if the iso(always around 800) is not that low
F.e. normal day , not cloudy but not sunny , the exif was f/9 , 1/30 iso 800
another one was iso 800 , 1/20 , f/8 , not the most sunny day , but not heavely clouded (you can see brightness on the left)
Lens was the 55-200 , shot at 135mm.

3. I have a question about this picture :
distance (taken on a rooftop , that on the picture is also on a rooftop) about 60 meters
f4.5 , shutter 1/1000 , iso 100 , lens (42-150) largest at 150mm
Do you think this is sharp , looking at the data of the exif.
And why is this one not blury or noisy when expanded to full size ?

thanks again

You cant set the noise. Iso and underexposure cause noise. You can shoot at a pretty high ISO with minimal noise but only if the exposure is right on. If you Underexpose the photo there will be more noise. Blurry photos are usually due to user error - focusing, shutter speed. You can have sharp photos with noise (which looks like grain).

In auto the camera is going to set the camera to what it determines will work best for the scene. There isn't much you can do about how your cameras auto mode works. That is why you should learn about exposure then you can use manual, aperture and shutter priority more effectively.

That picture probably isn't blurry or noisy because of the settings. 1/1000 is fast and the low ISO helps in creating a pictures without noise.

 

[marcdax]

You cant set the noise. Iso and underexposure cause noise. You can shoot at a pretty high ISO with minimal noise but only if the exposure is right on. If you Underexpose the photo there will be more noise. Blurry photos are usually due to user error - focusing, shutter speed. You can have sharp photos with noise (which looks like grain).

Okay , but user error cant be if I shoot on Automode. So the picture of the Triumph is the best this camera can do ? (on automode)
And in the menu there's an Noise reduction (you can set this to high , middle , low or off)
So if the lightmeter is on 0 the exposure is good , no ? Or if you dont see it in the screen or viewer.
So you got the same camera , do you have to use the same high ISO values ?

In auto the camera is going to set the camera to what it determines will work best for the scene. There isn't much you can do about how your cameras auto mode works. That is why you should learn about exposure then you can use manual, aperture and shutter priority more effectively.

I can understand and I do understand but what will make my picture sharp ? And how can I say it , i know what makes a sharp picture , all the things you said , like aperture and shutter has a certain minimal speed , focus , .....
So why do they all say (I know , this isn't the way to exercise the art of photography) just point and click and there's a sharp image (in Automode) ?
But like someone said (thought O hey.......) , why doesnt it take the proper or better settings ?

That picture probably isn't blurry or noisy because of the settings. 1/1000 is fast and the low ISO helps in creating a pictures without noise.

I know , but why is it relativily sharp at a low f4.6 at 60meters of distance ? at the max of the lens ?
And this one is taken on Automode (so chosen by the camera itself)
And this one can do a 1/1000 on a light cloudy day at Iso 100 ? How does this come ?

Is there such a big difference between cameras regarding ISO values ?
because under the same conditions with the Nikon it goes (or you have to set it yourself this high) 800 , i mean a cloudy day f.e. and get a slower shutterspeed.

And for the record , I'm just asking

 

[o hey tyler]

You need to understand that to get sharper photos:

a.) Your shutter speed NEEDS to be 1/focal length to get shots that aren't blurry. Meaning, if you are shooting at 55mm, your shutter speed NEEDS to be above 1/60s. It should really be more like 1/80s since you are using a crop frame DSLR, but that's not as important.

b.) Your ISO NEEDS to be as low as it can be for you to achieve a 1/60s or 1/80s shutter speed. If you are shooting at 55mm, your ISO is on 200 and your shutter speed is at 1/30s, your exposure meter is indicating that you are properly exposing the photograph (the line will be underneath the 0). That means you can change your ISO to 400, which will make the meter go to +1, and put your shutter speed to 1/60s which will bring the meter back to 0 and reduce camera shake. This is applicable to manual mode only, assuming that aperture stays constant.

This is a gross generalization and would not be applicable to all situations. Only to help you learn what it takes to properly expose a photograph with the least amount of noise possible.

 

[fjrabon]

I think one thing is that while you seem to understand sort of how the three work together, you dont seem to understand what they do, or at least it's not coming across.

So:

1) Aperture - controls, first and foremost how quickly light goes into the camera. Think of a correct exposure like a cup, we need to fill it just right to get it properly exposed. Too much and the cup overflows and we're overexposed. THink of it this way, the higher the f/stop number, the more slowly you're pouring light into the cup. The lower the stop number, the faster the pour.

Aperture also controls your depth of field. Higher f/stop numbers mean that you're going to have more of the scene that seems in focus.

To a lesser extent aperture also controls contrast, sharpness (at extreme apertures sharpness is reduced) and saturation, but that's getting a little advanced. Try not to shoot above f/16 and you should be fine. the best f/stops for the Nikon kit lens tend to be f/6, f/8 and f/11. I occasionally use f/13 for deep depth of field or f/5 for shallow depth of field.

2) Shutter speed - this is essentially how long you're pouring light into the cup. Too short and we don't get enough light in the cup. Too long and we overflow again.

Shutter speed also controls motion blur and camera shake blur. The longer the shutter speed, the more stuff can move around (including the camera in your hands), and thus the blurrier things get. The faster your shutter speed, the less things can blur, the sharper things are. Now this only works to sharpen movement. It won't help if you're out of focus, or at an extreme aperture, and are getting blur from somewhere other than motion. Extreme shutter speeds can also cause noise, but this effect isn't usually very significant.

A good rule of thumb with the kit lens is using the reciprocal of the focal length as the guide. Your lens is equipped with vibration reduction. If you are actually having a problem with unsharp images, the most likely culprit isn't the camera, it's that the vibration reduction in the lens could be messed up. If you follow all these guidelines and are still having problems with sharpness have the lens checked out. Also try turning off the vibration reduction and shooting on a tripod.

3) ISO - this is essentially like controlling the size of the cup. The higher your ISO, the smaller the cup. ISO 3200 is like a thimble, ISO 100 is like a liter mug. That is, with a higher ISO, you need less light to properly expose your photo, enabling faster shutter speeds and higher f/stop numbers (that is narrower apertures).

ISO also controls noise in the image. Little dots and grains that pop up. High ISO will have more noise, especially when combined with longer shutter speeds. Now with your D5100, this effect won't be significant until you get to ISO 1600. The D5100 has amazing low noise operation at ISO's under 1600, and usually the noise they generate is negligible. Now, you will get lower noise at ISO 100 than ISO 400, but you won't really be able to tell in most scenarios. Lower ISOs tend ot have slightly more contrast and saturation, but this effect is pretty negligible and shouldn't really be a concern most of the time.

 

[MTVision]

Okay , but user error cant be if I shoot on Automode. So the picture of the Triumph is the best this camera can do ? (on automode)
And in the menu there's an Noise reduction (you can set this to high , middle , low or off)
So if the lightmeter is on 0 the exposure is good , no ? Or if you dont see it in the screen or viewer.
So you got the same camera , do you have to use the same high ISO values ?

I can understand and I do understand but what will make my picture sharp ? And how can I say it , i know what makes a sharp picture , all the things you said , like aperture and shutter has a certain minimal speed , focus , .....
So why do they all say (I know , this isn't the way to exercise the art of photography) just point and click and there's a sharp image (in Automode) ?
But like someone said (thought O hey.......) , why doesnt it take the proper or better settings ?

I know , but why is it relativily sharp at a low f4.6 at 60meters of distance ? at the max of the lens ?
And this one is taken on Automode (so chosen by the camera itself)
And this one can do a 1/1000 on a light cloudy day at Iso 100 ? How does this come ?

Is there such a big difference between cameras regarding ISO values ?
because under the same conditions with the Nikon it goes (or you have to set it yourself this high) 800 , i mean a cloudy day f.e. and get a slower shutterspeed.

And for the record , I'm just asking

Auto mode isn't perfect - that is what I'm trying to say! And it can still be user error if you can't hold the camera still, if you aren't focusing properly, and many other things. You make photos NOT the camera. Focusing is a skill. It takes practice. I have pictures that were taken on auto - some of them suck, some of them are OK and only a few are great. Now, my pictures are a lot better since I've done research and I've practiced. Auto is going to pick 1 of numerous settings for you but it may not be the perfect one. Have you researched anything I said too - like the metering modes. That could be one of the issues and I'm not certain you can change it on auto. Why buy an expensive camera to shoot it on auto? If you aren't going to use auto then who cares how poor it works. I've tried auto recently and it did not work for me. The settings it chose were not what I would've chosen and the pictures didn't come out as good as they could've been.

Metering to 0 isn't always going to give a good exposure and it depends on the metering mode as well. I keep my ISO at 100 all the time. If my shutter speed isn't high enough for me to handhold I will either raise the ISO or choose a larger aperture. You would most likely have to raise the ISO because your lens doesn't have a large aperture. My lenses open up to f/1.4 and f/2.8. I do use the kit lens as well. Noise reduction in the camera is for high ISO's. I keep my noise reduction off and fix it in post. I also shoot in RAW so none of the in camera settings affect the picture.

Skill will make your picture sharp. F/8 is probably the aperture that is the sharpest but you have to nail your focus. Also there is anti-aliasing filter which can cause your photos to look a little soft. They need to e sharpened slightly in an editing program. I've never heard - point and shoot and you'll get a sharp image. Point an shoot cameras are meant to take decent images but unless you know what you are doing they won't be sharp.

1/1000 at ISO 100 in the daylight is a normal setting.

Like I said before there are 6+ correct exposures for every scene. Your camera on auto chooses one of those many settings. Forget about auto and learn how to use your camera - its as easy as that. Understanding exposure by Bryan Peterson - buy it and read it.

You don't have to set your ISO to 800 on a cloudy day - you can choose too. Usually when you raise your ISO your shutter speed goes higher not lower. If you do some research you will understand this. Everything that's being written to you has been said in one way or another by everyone. You obviously aren't getting it because you don't understand ISO, aperture, shutter speed, metering MODES, etc.

 

[MTVision]

This is the only image I have on flick that was taken with auto. The lens is the 55-300. It was at 72mm 1/1000 ISO 560 (on auto) f/4.5. This was the day I got my camera and had no idea what I was doing. This was one of the few that came out good - beginners luck. Most didn't come out that great because auto is not magic.

 

[MTVision]

I think one thing is that while you seem to understand sort of how the three work together, you dont seem to understand what they do, or at least it's not coming across.

So:

1) Aperture - controls, first and foremost how quickly light goes into the camera. Think of a correct exposure like a cup, we need to fill it just right to get it properly exposed. Too much and the cup overflows and we're overexposed. THink of it this way, the higher the f/stop number, the more slowly you're pouring light into the cup. The lower the stop number, the faster the pour.

Aperture also controls your depth of field. Higher f/stop numbers mean that you're going to have more of the scene that seems in focus.

To a lesser extent aperture also controls contrast, sharpness (at extreme apertures sharpness is reduced) and saturation, but that's getting a little advanced. Try not to shoot above f/16 and you should be fine. the best f/stops for the Nikon kit lens tend to be f/6, f/8 and f/11. I occasionally use f/13 for deep depth of field or f/5 for shallow depth of field.

2) Shutter speed - this is essentially how long you're pouring light into the cup. Too short and we don't get enough light in the cup. Too long and we overflow again.

Shutter speed also controls motion blur and camera shake blur. The longer the shutter speed, the more stuff can move around (including the camera in your hands), and thus the blurrier things get. The faster your shutter speed, the less things can blur, the sharper things are. Now this only works to sharpen movement. It won't help if you're out of focus, or at an extreme aperture, and are getting blur from somewhere other than motion. Extreme shutter speeds can also cause noise, but this effect isn't usually very significant.

A good rule of thumb with the kit lens is using the reciprocal of the focal length as the guide. Your lens is equipped with vibration reduction. If you are actually having a problem with unsharp images, the most likely culprit isn't the camera, it's that the vibration reduction in the lens could be messed up. If you follow all these guidelines and are still having problems with sharpness have the lens checked out. Also try turning off the vibration reduction and shooting on a tripod.

3) ISO - this is essentially like controlling the size of the cup. The higher your ISO, the smaller the cup. ISO 3200 is like a thimble, ISO 100 is like a liter mug. That is, with a higher ISO, you need less light to properly expose your photo, enabling faster shutter speeds and higher f/stop numbers (that is narrower apertures).

ISO also controls noise in the image. Little dots and grains that pop up. High ISO will have more noise, especially when combined with longer shutter speeds. Now with your D5100, this effect won't be significant until you get to ISO 1600. The D5100 has amazing low noise operation at ISO's under 1600, and usually the noise they generate is negligible. Now, you will get lower noise at ISO 100 than ISO 400, but you won't really be able to tell in most scenarios. Lower ISOs tend ot have slightly more contrast and saturation, but this effect is pretty negligible and shouldn't really be a concern most of the time.

You will get lower noise at ISO 100 but....fjrabon would probably have less noise in an image he took at ISO 400 then you would at ISO 100. You can take photos with minimal noise at high ISO's but you have to know how to expose them perfectly. Underexposed photos will have more noise in them.

 

[fjrabon]

This is the only image I have on flick that was taken with auto. The lens is the 55-300. It was at 72mm 1/1000 ISO 560 (on auto) f/4.5. This was the day I got my camera and had no idea what I was doing. This was one of the few that came out good - beginners luck. Most didn't come out that great because auto is not magic.

Another point to consider is that the more normal your shooting situation is, the better auto works. How auto works is by comparing your image to an inbuilt database of 'similar seeming' images, picking the images that match the best to what you have, and then applying the setting that a pro would have exposed the images in the database at. THe weakness in that chain is the comparing images part. The easier your images match up to things in the database, the better auto works. Thus auto is actually pretty good at snapshots of people, basic landscapes, animals, etc. It's not so good at random objects colored random colors, night photography (unless you have it on the night portrait mode), abnormal landscapes, abstract pictures, etc. Basically think 'how likely would this type of picture pop up on facebook?' and you'll have an idea of how well auto will work.

edit: also, cute kid Megan, is that your little girl?

 

[marcdax]

You don't have to set your ISO to 800 on a cloudy day - you can choose too. Usually when you raise your ISO your shutter speed goes higher not lower. If you do some research you will understand this. Everything that's being written to you has been said in one way or another by everyone. You obviously aren't getting it because you don't understand ISO, aperture, shutter speed, metering MODES, etc.

I know that i come across like I don't understand it , seems like I can't bring it over.
But on what you say in the quote :
I do need to set my ISO at 800 otherwise my shutterspeed is below 1/50 , believe it or not.
I need to get my iso higher to get my shutterspeed up , i know , that's why they are so high.
Could you do me a favor and just for a second forget about the exposure triangle that you think i don't get , could you do that for me ?
On the 4 pictures , what iso would you have used or thought you would use , cause you say i dont need to go that high.
My lightmetering is on "matrix"

The picture of those bricks , shutterspeed is 1/125 (set by me - told in this topic to be a good shutter) , the camera came with F5 (so a lot of light comes in) at iso 640 chosen by me, lower iso400 i went (havent written it down) to 1/80 or 1/60

On a picture i was looking to take , i did the following :
Set aperture on f11
I set my iso on 800
=> The camera gave me a shutterspeed of 1/40
So i raised it because i know that my ss goes up
I set it on 1000 => the camera gave me 1/50

* So what am I doing wrong ????????*(only thing i could do is lower my f so i gets more open, but what if i want to take a picture at that aperture)

- now in my own words (so you can see i do understand it) an example :
F with a low number is (f.e.) like a circle with diameter 9 ; f with a high number is like a diameter 2
1/5 (of a second) handheld is not good because you have to keep steady (not move) for that amount of time , if you have 1/250 (of a second) its faster so the chance of moving becomes a lot less.
Iso : if you have a iso 100 you will have less noise than at iso 1600 or higher. If i set my F on f.e. 15 and at iso 400 i get a shutterspeed of 1/40 , i can set it higher to raise my shutterspeed to f.e. 1/60
I really do understand , hopefully i come over now correctly.
example :
I set my F at 5 , so f/5 (a whole lot of light coming in) and i have my iso set on 100 , the camera gives me s/40.
So i need to have atleast 55 (mm/ss) , so i have to raise my Iso higher to do the same with my shutterspeed.
So i set it to (f.e.) to 250 and the camera gives me in combination with my F/5 a shutterspeed of 1/60
This 1/60 is the minimal i need.
It would be better to have it higher , but i have to look out for overexposure.

Just the only thing i need a confirmation , think i'm correct but to be sure:
mm/ss , so 55 lens is atleast 1/60.
If you shoot at f.e. at 135mm (55-200 lens) , than i need to be at 1/125 atleast to shoot handheld ?
That's a thing i need to know (and i'm honest that i have a doubt about that)

 

[MTVision]

I know that i come across like I don't understand it , seems like I can't bring it over.
But on what you say in the quote :
I do need to set my ISO at 800 otherwise my shutterspeed is below 1/50 , believe it or not.
I need to get my iso higher to get my shutterspeed up , i know , that's why they are so high.
Could you do me a favor and just for a second forget about the exposure triangle that you think i don't get , could you do that for me ?
On the 4 pictures , what iso would you have used or thought you would use , cause you say i dont need to go that high.
My lightmetering is on "matrix"

The picture of those bricks , shutterspeed is 1/125 (set by me - told in this topic to be a good shutter) , the camera came with F5 (so a lot of light comes in) at iso 640 chosen by me, lower iso400 i went (havent written it down) to 1/80 or 1/60

On a picture i was looking to take , i did the following :
Set aperture on f11
I set my iso on 800
=> The camera gave me a shutterspeed of 1/40
So i raised it because i know that my ss goes up
I set it on 1000 => the camera gave me 1/50

* So what am I doing wrong ????????*(only thing i could do is lower my f so i gets more open, but what if i want to take a picture at that aperture)

- now in my own words (so you can see i do understand it) an example :
F with a low number is (f.e.) like a circle with diameter 9 ; f with a high number is like a diameter 2
1/5 (of a second) handheld is not good because you have to keep steady (not move) for that amount of time , if you have 1/250 (of a second) its faster so the chance of moving becomes a lot less.
Iso : if you have a iso 100 you will have less noise than at iso 1600 or higher. If i set my F on f.e. 15 and at iso 400 i get a shutterspeed of 1/40 , i can set it higher to raise my shutterspeed to f.e. 1/60
I really do understand , hopefully i come over now correctly.
example :
I set my F at 5 , so f/5 (a whole lot of light coming in) and i have my iso set on 100 , the camera gives me s/40.
So i need to have atleast 55 (mm/ss) , so i have to raise my Iso higher to do the same with my shutterspeed.
So i set it to (f.e.) to 250 and the camera gives me in combination with my F/5 a shutterspeed of 1/60
This 1/60 is the minimal i need.
It would be better to have it higher , but i have to look out for overexposure.

Just the only thing i need a confirmation , think i'm correct but to be sure:
mm/ss , so 55 lens is atleast 1/60.
If you shoot at f.e. at 135mm (55-200 lens) , than i need to be at 1/125 atleast to shoot handheld ?
That's a thing i need to know (and i'm honest that i have a doubt about that)

I don't know what your settings should be. Do you understand what matrix does though?

Matrix Metering or Evaluative Metering mode is the default metering mode on most DSLRs. It works similarly to the above example by dividing the entire frame into multiple “zones”, which are then all analyzed on individual basis for light and dark tones. One of the key factors (in addition to color, distance, subjects, highlights, etc) that affects matrix metering, is where the camera focus point is set to. After reading information from all individual zones, the metering system looks at where you focused within the frame and marks it more important than all other zones. There are many other variables used in the equation, which differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. Nikon, for example, also compares image data to a database of thousands of pictures for exposure calculation.

You should set your ISO last and only if needed. I, personally set my aperture first depending oN what DOF i want, then i adjust the shutter speed and as a last resort my ISO Also, just because you put in f/5 and the camera gives you a shutter speed of 1/100 doesn't mean that's the only settings you can use for that image or that those are the best settings. Do you get what I'm saying? The camera isn't always correct. So, you understand what aperture, shutter speed and ISO mean but you still aren't getting my point that jut because the camera gives you those settings doesn't mean the exposure will be perfect or that the image will look the best.

The minimum shutter speed for handholding is the focal length (50mm would be 1/50) but it should really be double the focal length. A faster shutter speed is always better for handholding.