on a begginer flash

[jarg007]

So i have the nikkon d3300 on the way and from what i have been reading i feel like a flash might be a good next investment for the camera. It seems that flashes are relatively expensive though, or are there some lower end ones that are not that expensive yet still versatile, creative and allow for off camera lighting.

 

[tirediron]

It all depends on how you define 'expensive'. First-party manufacturers are generally the most expensive, but they're also the best built and you can be virtually guarenteed that all of the features will work exactly as they should. Yongnuo and Nissin and good, third-party names with decent reputations. They produce reasonably well made equipment, and most of the features (TTL, CLS, etc) work fairly well.

 

[jarg007]

It all depends on how you define 'expensive'. First-party manufacturers are generally the most expensive, but they're also the best built and you can be virtually guarenteed that all of the features will work exactly as they should. Yongnuo and Nissin and good, third-party names with decent reputations. They produce reasonably well made equipment, and most of the features (TTL, CLS, etc) work fairly well.

a good price for me is http://www.amazon.com/Yongnuo-YN560...11&sr=8-2&keywords=Yongnuo+YN560-II+Speedlite
Does this look like a good one for someone just starting out?

 

[pixmedic]

I picked up a brand new Neewer 750II TTL flash for $60 and have been pretty pleased with it as a spare flash

 

[jarg007]

I picked up a brand new Neewer 750II TTL flash for $60 and have been pretty pleased with it as a spare flash

ok. would you recommend that over the one i posted and also what does ttl do?

 

[jarg007]

Or should i wait a while and invest in a better flash like Midwest Photo Exchange LumoPro LP180 Quad-Sync Manual Flash

 

[Derrel]

I would recommend that a beginner get a flash that offers automatic flash output control options. The Yongy 560-II and the LumoPro are more aimed at more-experienced users.

My honest suggestion is that a beginner like yourself ought to buy a used Nikon SB 600 or SB 700 from one of the big camera outfits' used departments, and use that to learn with.

Once you become fully conversant, and somewhat serious about flash, it's at that point that the low,low price of the Made in China flash brigade becomes compelling. Of course, I am of the opinion that beginners are the ones who benefit the most from high-quality, reliable, guaranteed compatible gear, and that experts are the ones who have what it takes to leverage cheap equipment and low-end gear.

There are legions of experts who confuse what's best for them with what beginners would benefit from.

 

[jarg007]

I would recommend that a beginner get a flash that offers automatic flash output control options. The Yongy 560-II and the LumoPro are more aimed at more-experienced users.

My honest suggestion is that a beginner like yourself ought to buy a used Nikon SB 600 or SB 700 from one of the big camera outfits' used departments, and use that to learn with.

Once you become fully conversant, and somewhat serious about flash, it's at that point that the low,low price of the Made in China flash brigade becomes compelling. Of course, I am of the opinion that beginners are the ones who benefit the most from high-quality, reliable, guaranteed compatible gear, and that experts are the ones who have what it takes to leverage cheap equipment and low-end gear.

There are legions of experts who confuse what's best for them with what beginners would benefit from.

I found a few used on amazon for the 600 model around $150. On that flash does it support manual mode so you can change the flash power settings ect?

 

[Derrel]

Yes, that seems to be the going rate, around a hundred and a half. The nice thing about the beginner level models is that they are usually not former "pro wedding shooter main flash units", like SB 800, or SB 900, or SB 910 units might have been, and many have "low miles". I have shot the SB 600 a pretty fair amount...it's an easy to use, reliable flash unit.

 

[jarg007]

Yes, that seems to be the going rate, around a hundred and a half. The nice thing about the beginner level models is that they are usually not former "pro wedding shooter main flash units", like SB 800, or SB 900, or SB 910 units might have been, and many have "low miles". I have shot the SB 600 a pretty fair amount...it's an easy to use, reliable flash unit.

Gotcha, what about something like Amazon.com Altura Photo Flash Kit for NIKON DSLR D7100 D7000 D5300 D5200 D5100 D5000 D3300 D3200 D3100 - Includes Altura Photo I-TTL Auto-Focus Dedicated Speedlite Flash Wireless Camera Flash Trigger and Camera Remote Control Function Cable-M Cord for Remote Control Protective Pouch Hard Flash Diffuser MagicFiber Microfiber Camera Photo
would that work ok or would i be better off spending the extra money? This one also has ttl and has good reviews. Budget is a factor at this point.

 

[Derrel]

Good reviews...many from people who bought it "the day before". Here are individual review snippets.
*****I am not new to photography having been around the business for over 30 years. I'm not one to buy top of the line when something else will do the job just as well.
******I've been in photography for 38 years, and after taking several days to play with this system I’m thrilled with it
******The zoom setting seems returns to 18 mm automatically after a while (5 minutes idling ?) It becomes inconvenient when taking telephoto shots. Then after you resets it back to 180 mm then you have to wait a few seconds before you can adjust the light intensity. Otherwise this flash light works better than Nikon SB800 and costs only a fraction.
****I received them yesterday and all I can say WOW !!!
****On another piece of Altura equipment I had an issue and their distributor Digital GOJA did an excellent job of providing support, even having a technician call to walk me through troubleshooting and eventually refunding my money
*****my Nikon SB800. Yes, the interface is not as smooth, but for a flash that you throw on a backup camera, it's performed like a champ. I find it to be a little light on the guide range,
*****Only thing is, it does not beep or give any feedback sounds. I think this could be a plus for some people, so I'm not taking off stars for it. And, it goes to sleep fast, but you can't turn that off from what I can tell

"Several days", "yesterday", 30 years experience, 38 years..and then...the little niggling, made in China knock-off issues...the bounce card doesn't stay up well(omitted) it's noisy (omitted), (missing pieces in kit, omitted), my first flash! (omitted), I've never owned a flash, but this is good!....constantly zooms back to 18mm, and then power is not adjustable...

Would you be better off buying a real, genuine, high-quality piece of equipment? Something designed with a 40 year lifespan in mind? Again...the lure of low price rears its head. Reviews from people who are in love with having saved some money on a discount product are very much part and parcel of Amazon "reviews". I love the people who say, "I just bought this YESTERDAY!!!!" and rave about stuff they just got...most of the reviews on Amazon are like that. I like Techboy's post from a couple days ago...his Yongnuo started smelling like burning wires, and the batteries were hot,and he's afraid to use the flash now. Or Pixmedic, whose Yongnuo would not fire on a recent job, so he picked up another entire camera+ flash backup unit...

 

[jarg007]

Good reviews...many from people who bought it "the day before". Here are individual review snippets.
*****I am not new to photography having been around the business for over 30 years. I'm not one to buy top of the line when something else will do the job just as well.
******I've been in photography for 38 years, and after taking several days to play with this system I’m thrilled with it
******The zoom setting seems returns to 18 mm automatically after a while (5 minutes idling ?) It becomes inconvenient when taking telephoto shots. Then after you resets it back to 180 mm then you have to wait a few seconds before you can adjust the light intensity. Otherwise this flash light works better than Nikon SB800 and costs only a fraction.
****I received them yesterday and all I can say WOW !!!
****On another piece of Altura equipment I had an issue and their distributor Digital GOJA did an excellent job of providing support, even having a technician call to walk me through troubleshooting and eventually refunding my money
*****my Nikon SB800. Yes, the interface is not as smooth, but for a flash that you throw on a backup camera, it's performed like a champ. I find it to be a little light on the guide range,
*****Only thing is, it does not beep or give any feedback sounds. I think this could be a plus for some people, so I'm not taking off stars for it. And, it goes to sleep fast, but you can't turn that off from what I can tell

"Several days", "yesterday", 30 years experience, 38 years..and then...the little niggling, made in China knock-off issues...the bounce card doesn't stay up well(omitted) it's noisy (omitted), (missing pieces in kit, omitted), my first flash! (omitted), I've never owned a flash, but this is good!....constantly zooms back to 18mm, and then power is not adjustable...

Would you be better off buying a real, genuine, high-quality piece of equipment? Something designed with a 40 year lifespan in mind? Again...the lure of low price rears its head. Reviews from people who are in love with having saved some money on a discount product are very much part and parcel of Amazon "reviews". I love the people who say, "I just bought this YESTERDAY!!!!" and rave about stuff they just got...most of the reviews on Amazon are like that. I like Techboy's post from a couple days ago...his Yongnuo started smelling like burning wires, and the batteries were hot,and he's afraid to use the flash now. Or Pixmedic, whose Yongnuo would not fire on a recent job, so he picked up another entire camera+ flash backup unit...

it does look like it has a 1 year warranty as well, but do you think a lot of the reviews are fake?

 

[Derrel]

No, I do not think the reviews are fake at all. I think they are people who have just bought the thing, and are on-line, reviewing it literally the DAY they bought it, or after two or three days of "playing with it" (the actual word choice of the one 'reviewer'..playing with it...).The price is low, yes. But there are other issues that tend to become apparent after a bit of use. This is a subject where some people see value in quality and reliability and 100% system compatibility, and others see the value in a low-low-low-low priced item. There are goods marketed for every type of consumer,every price point.

The WORST reviews are the exact type this flash has plenty of...people who buy something, and then IMMEDIATELY write an Amazon review about their recent purchase. I even quoted a couple, that reference that hey, I just bought this, and I am thrilled! woo-hoo! The best reviews are written after a period of actual, thorough use. This is why a review written on a camera or lens by say, Thom Hogan, carries 50x more weight than a review written by some guy or gal after their first Saturday using (playing with) their newest purchase.

It's a matter of what one is willing to stake his or her reputation on; I do not recommend cheap, made in China, knock-off flashes except to people with a serious commitment, and spares, and a full, complete understanding of how to make that flash gear work...as I said, there are legions of experienced users who confuse what is best for a beginner (or a one-flash owner), and what THEY themselves have chosen to use. I do not recommend cheap gear to beginners. Cheapest is seldom the best. I generally do not base my recommendations on what is the lowest-priced item possible to source from e-Bay or Amazon. We have some passionate defenders of these low-priced wonders here on TPF, and almost all of them are very experienced, very capable shooters...and they often have a bunch of spare units...

 

[pixmedic]

No, I do not think the reviews are fake at all. I think they are people who have just bought the thing, and are on-line, reviewing it literally the DAY they bought it, or after two or three days of "playing with it" (the actual word choice of the one 'reviewer'..playing with it...).The price is low, yes. But there are other issues that tend to become apparent after a bit of use. This is a subject where some people see value in quality and reliability and 100% system compatibility, and others see the value in a low-low-low-low priced item. There are goods marketed for every type of consumer,every price point.

The WORST reviews are the exact type this flash has plenty of...people who buy something, and then IMMEDIATELY write an Amazon review about their recent purchase. I even quoted a couple, that reference that hey, I just bought this, and I am thrilled! woo-hoo! The best reviews are written after a period of actual, thorough use. This is why a review written on a camera or lens by say, Thom Hogan, carries 50x more weight than a review written by some guy or gal after their first Saturday using (playing with) their newest purchase.

It's a matter of what one is willing to stake his or her reputation on; I do not recommend cheap, made in China, knock-off flashes except to people with a serious commitment, and spares, and a full, complete understanding of how to make that flash gear work...as I said, there are legions of experienced users who confuse what is best for a beginner (or a one-flash owner), and what THEY themselves have chosen to use. I do not recommend cheap gear to beginners. Cheapest is seldom the best. I generally do not base my recommendations on what is the lowest-priced item possible to source from e-Bay or Amazon. We have some passionate defenders of these low-priced wonders here on TPF, and almost all of them are very experienced, very capable shooters...and they often have a bunch of spare units...

I did have two flash units fail to test fire on my last portrait shoot...one was a yongnuo 568ex and one was a nikon sb700.

Thankfully I have 8 flashes.
I love the yongnuo flashes, but I am also used to shooting almost exclusively manual flash and camera and I know pretty much exactly how to set the flashes for what I'm shooting. I have had several sb700's and sb600's, but i sold the sb600's to get more of the yongnuo flashes.

The sb600 is a great flash, about $150 used, and is compatible with Nikon's CLS system. It also does TTL and I THINK HSS.
A sb600 or sb700 will let you use the flash off camera without having to buy radio triggers using Nikon's CLS system. I used this method with my 600s and 700s until I later switched to yongnuo radio triggers.

You certainly can't go wrong picking up a used sb600, although I disliked it's menu setup. The sb700 was much easier to navigate

 

[Valjean24601]

I teach a basic flash class and my recommendation has always been to buy the manufacturer's flash. OK, maybe not always, but certainly for most situations. I have had a variety of third party flashes in the class over the years and have yet to find one I would recommend. Perhaps even more so with Nikon whose flash exposure metering (TTL) seems to be more complex, IMO. And TTL is a big factor. When you take TTL out of the equation, everything changes. But I know I would want at least one, good, TTL flash.