On the fence here!

[EDL]

So I have the green light from the wife to buy a camera. It will have to be entry level, I just can't afford a $1000+ camera, so I'm looking at the $650-$750ish range with a kit lens to start. I know lenses are pricey for good glass and that will come later, but I have to get started. Unless I hit the lotto, I most likely won't be looking to buy a high end, full frame body any time in the near future either, so what I get now is going to have to last me a long time.

I love macro and the Canon MP-E65 lens is weighing strongly on my list for future purchase. In that vein I've got the Canon T2i as the camera on my list, but...

Along comes the new Nikon D3200. Higher pixels and as I keep reading here, better glass from Nikon over all. I know tubes and extenders and reverse lens techniques can be used for good macro, but the convenience of the MP-E65 keeps weighing on my mind.

Also, I have spent a little time just handling the Nikons and the Canons and there too I have a slight dilemma. The canon is a bit larger physically and does fit my hand a little better (I have big hands), but I do like how some of the Nikon controls are laid out, and as I have read here how they can all be assigned functionality to suit your personal tastes.

So, which one to go with. If it weren't for the MP-E65, I would pounce on the D3200, no question....but that MP-E65 is just so...well, awesome.

Part of me says go with the Nikon and deal with macro set ups later, and part of me thinks I might regret not being able to get and use the MP-E65.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[Derrel]

Canon has the MP-E65, nut other than that, macro with the Canon EOS system is kind of a PITA for the giuy on a budget. Why is that you ask? Well, Canon EFG lenses have no lens diaphragm controls on the lenses. That means when a lens is reversed, it's a giant PITA to work with., When you buy a low-cost extension tube, Canon is again, a PITA because a tube needs an electronic contacts set to give f/stop- control. Nikon has a puely mechanical aperture control mechanism on each lens. EVERY lens. GHat mechanism can be operated by hand...or even held in place with TAPE when a lens is used in freverse-mounted position! (Seriously--tape!!!) ON the Nikkor lenses made from 1959 to the late 1980's, and even beyond, the mechanical, manual aperture control ring allows the macro user to rig up almost anything, and have easy aperture control. This is the polar opposite of Canon, where you need "purpose-built" accessories and lenses.

THe D3200 will also mount and shoot wigth basically ANY F-mount lens made since 1959, regardless of generation....pre-Ai lense, AI or Ai-S lens, AF, AF-D, AF-i, or AF-S, or AF-S G series...

You want an MPE-65? Find a Nikon Series E 36-72mm lens and reverse-mount it. That'll cost you around $140 for the lens and the BR-2 lens reversing ring.

 

[Overread]

SHigher pixels and as I keep reading here, better glass from Nikon over all.

I assure you that is a myth
(even if its true according to tests I'll bet you its an indiscernible difference in the real world - and its also far more likely that its something that varies lens to lens not over the whole range)




Honestly if you take the Canon MPE 65mm out of the equation there is nothing you can do on Canon that you can't do on Nikon and vis versa. The differences between the two ranges are going to be small and a lot of the time its personal preference, style of shooting and specific demands that really start to differ between the two brands. Both offer very complete setups and both will do everything from amateur through to full pro work and quality.

Choosing early on can be tricky - looking to glass and equipment you want to use is a very important step - if you have future plans see what fits best; last thing you want to do is jump on the better short term brand and then find that the lens you really wanted all along is on the other brand.



All that said one of the best macro photographers I know doesn't even shot Canon or Nikon (last I recall I think he was using Sony, though I think he's changed brands a few times and also uses a range of gear).
Have a look at his work and take a peek through his flickr sets - he's a detailed equipment section and many of his photos contain detailed info on the setup used.
Flickr: johnhallmen's Photostream

Just a point - don't get the idea that going for options other than the MPE is going to be cheaper. Macro is very easy to get into cheaply, but if you go after the quality results the costs will ramp up just like any other interest area. The MPE 65mm offers what is generally considered the base line results (mostly as its so widely used) for high magnification macro and offers a great convenience to the photographer. Other options are out there - each one with its own unique properties - some will be better, some just as good and others better than.



Personally I'd go Canon and long term aim after the MPE 65mm macro

 

[EDL]

Thanks Derrel, you made a really, really strong case for Nikon there. I wasn't aware of the diaphragm issue on the Canon lenses.

The more I think about it the more I am leaning toward the Nikon. Reading some of the reviews of the D3200 though, someone said that it won't autofocus through something like 80% of Nikon's autofocus lenses, and another review said "...it will NOT meter at all with older unchipped lenses (non-AI, AI). It will meter with AF (screw focus) lenses but no auto focus."

Is that true also, of say the D5100?

Also, would anyone recommend that I buy body only (avoid the kit lens) and then buy something else, such as that E series 36-72mm Derrel mentioned?

 

[Derrel]

The number of current lenses with AF-S focusing is much higher than 20%, so the "85% figure is not on a by-model basis. It's probablky accurate though by NUMBERS of lenses manufactured. Nikon has made over 70 million Nikkor lenses. I think it's 30 million AF lenses, and 20 million or so are ACF-i or AF-s.

And yes, the AF and AF-D (AKA "screw drive") automatic focusing lenses will give light metering on the D3200 and D5100, but will not focus automatically.

Older, un-chipped lenses will not meter, but they will mount and shoot properly. The beauty of the "baby Nikon" models D40,D40x,D60,D3000,D3100,D3200,D5000,and D5100 is that they WILL MOUNT, and will SHOOT photos with well over 70 million Nikon-made lenses, and probably over twice that many F-mount lenses made by 3rd party makers. That means a manual focus Nikon 55mm f/3.5 (pre-AI mount) macro lens for $69 in excellent condition from KEH (yesterday) will pop onto a D3200,and shoot macro shots. A Canon lens of that same vintage is a useless paperweight unless you have a an old pre-1986 Canon film camera to use it on.

The entire series of "baby Nikons" are excellent cameras for the person who wants to be able to buy a lot of older or low-cost lenses to experiment with, or to build an entire kit of lenses for say, $700, by buying older lenses that there is not much current interest in.

 

[EDL]

and I just discovered the D3200 doesn't do any exposure bracketing...gah.

I guess I'm asking for too much in this price range of camera.

 

[belial]

Personally I would consider not doing the d3200 anyways. The amount of pixels is going to exceed the resolving power of your starter lenses by a significant amount.

 

[EDL]

Would exposure bracketing be something that could be added by Nikon via a firmware update to the D3200 at some point?

 

[Overread]

Camera companies very very rarely expand the cameras base features with a firmwire update. Far as I've been in things I've only ever seen it happen on the 5DMII with the expansion of video mode controls. The rest of the time what comes out is what you get - if you want more you have to wait till the next model or go up a level.

That said exposure bracketing is pretty easily done yourself manually - its a boon to have as a feature and in some quickfire situations can be important, but in general, its easily done yourself that its not a problem if you don't have it.

 

[cgipson1]

Would exposure bracketing be something that could be added by Nikon via a firmware update to the D3200 at some point?

Very unlikely.. but there are relatively inexpensive remotes that will do bracketing... and software will do it also if you tether it.

 

[Ballistics]

Personally I would consider not doing the d3200 anyways. The amount of pixels is going to exceed the resolving power of your starter lenses by a significant amount.

What do you mean?

 

[EDL]

Those remotes sound interesting...do you happen to know of a brand/model that I could look at that would add bracketing features?

I pretty much figured I could do bracketed exposures by hand, but if it could be automated, that would be really nice. I would expect to buy a remote for the camera anyway for shutter release, but if it can also automate the bracketing, then all the better.

Nikon seems to skimp on the bracketing features on the lower end cameras, usually only 3 shots from what I've looked at. Heck, even my ancient little Oly C3030 does 3 or 5 shot brackets and choice of .3, .6 or 1 EV.

I'm leaning toward the D3200. All the reviews seem to be pretty favorable for it. I like what Derrel said about using so many of the older lenses (even though the auto functions may not be available), having a wide array of lenses that could be potentially cheap (compared to expensive new ones) is a plus for someone like me on a tight budget. Definitely lends itself to more experimentation and options.

 

[Overread]

If you are going to consider using older lenses, try to get an idea now (ie before you buy) of what lenses are of interest to you. Some old glass still commands a pretty good price in the market, whilst other options are cheap, but weaker compared to newer versions. Further some older stuff is hard to come by.

If you've got interests and an idea of budget (even if its only rough guesses at future expenses) try to do the preliminary research into what lenses you want. Getting a good ground idea now really helps focus, it might also show how much reliance on older and newer glass you have; if you end up looking at a lot of older lenses great, but if you end up looking at only one or two you might reconsider your choices.

 

[sovietdoc]

Both Canon and Nikon make relatively the same stuff. MP-E is an exception. But there are other segments where Nikon has lenses that Canon does not.

Then it all boils down to the handling, control layout and particular features in each camera. Every now and then if you find an exact match up like 24-70 f/2.8 or 70-200 f/2.8 you can compare each brand and see whos is better but besides that, it just comes down to a body preference.

 

[cgipson1]

Those remotes sound interesting...do you happen to know of a brand/model that I could look at that would add bracketing features?

I pretty much figured I could do bracketed exposures by hand, but if it could be automated, that would be really nice. I would expect to buy a remote for the camera anyway for shutter release, but if it can also automate the bracketing, then all the better.

Nikon seems to skimp on the bracketing features on the lower end cameras, usually only 3 shots from what I've looked at. Heck, even my ancient little Oly C3030 does 3 or 5 shot brackets and choice of .3, .6 or 1 EV.

I'm leaning toward the D3200. All the reviews seem to be pretty favorable for it. I like what Derrel said about using so many of the older lenses (even though the auto functions may not be available), having a wide array of lenses that could be potentially cheap (compared to expensive new ones) is a plus for someone like me on a tight budget. Definitely lends itself to more experimentation and options.

Seems like 480Sparky or 2wheelphoto posted a review on one a couple of months ago that would do it... but couldn't find it. I do know that the ProMote will do it... but it is about $300 or so. Helicon Remote software will do it.. and so will the NKremote software.