P mode?

[Ysarex]

Sure, but the issue becomes with a series of pictures. In P mode you'd have to adjust every single one. In manual you can get your basic setting, and then unless the lighting changes you just snap the next one. In P mode, if the camera's light meter reads some minor change in the lighting, it's going to attempt to 'fix it'. So, for instance say you're shooting a wedding reception indoors. The DJ lights might flash jsut a bit differently, and all of the sudden your camera decided to make a completely different exposure.

In P mode you don't have to adjust every single shot -- only the first one, just like manual. Assume the camera in P mode calculates a shutter of 1/250 at f/11 and I'd rather be at f/5.6. Index finger turn of the wheel and the camera is now set at 1/1000 at f/5.6 and I take the photo. Take another photo and the camera doesn't jump back to 1/250 at f/11 it stays at 1/1000 at f/5.6. If a minor lighting change occurs those settings will not change to a completely different exposure, especially since I also keep my meter set for center or spot.



When I decide to intervene with the meter's calculated exposure our knob turning is equal -- it's a tie. I do that pretty often but not 100% of the time. In more than 1/2 of my photos I'm very happy to accept the meter's calculated exposure and so I'm just a simple one wheel nudge away from ready or if I'm shooting a series of photos we're again tied as my exposure setting won't change unless the lighting changes. A few thousand photos later I've turned a few less knobs. This isn't a big deal at all and I wouldn't bother with these threads except for the __________ who start that, "I'm a real photographer and I only shoot manual" cr*p. They're not helping people who ask and want to learn. For the record you're not one of them.

....The problem I have with using P mode unless it's really by far the most efficient way is that it can surprise you too much. With manual, after you've taken one shot, you basically know what the following exposures are going to look like. With P, it can just decide to drastically change things out of nowhere. You take one shot and it looks great, you take the next shot and all of the sudden it's exposing it with drastically more DoF or another half stop of light. With manual, nothing changes unless I change it. That's both the good and bad of both modes. With manual, you have to change it, which is sometimes an inconvenience, but with P, the camera changes it, which is sometimes annoying. It remains my opinion that if you only use 1-2 of your modes, you're not using your camera to the full extent of its abilities, and you're making your life as a photographer harder than it needs to be.

P mode never surprises me. Machines and computer programs are designed to behave in predictable ways and they do. Cameras set to P mode do not decide to drastically change things out of nowhere -- that's nonsense. Today's camera's in fact behave with fantastic predictable consistency. In the OP's original post she said, "I've got to assume Nikon wouldn't include if there wasn't a decent use for it." That's a fair assumption. Nikon's camera engineers have a pretty good idea of how to design a really usable camera. My camera was designed by Canon engineers and it works the same way.

Joe

If you've ever shot under cycling power lights, you will see how crazy auto modes can get, what tends to happen is they meter one split second, then the cycle changes, and they basically hit the exposure on the exact opposite part of the pwoer cycle, causing the exposures to go CRAZY. Same thing with concerts. The stage lights drive the camera's meter crazy, in P mode one second you'll have the singer wildly overexposed, and in the next drastically underexposed.

Sure, for about 70% of most people's shots, it just really doesn't matter which mode they use, as long as they know how to use whatever mode they're in. 25% of the time it doesn't matter very much. But about 5% of the time what mode you are in can make or break how efficiently you can get the shot. I guess you're saying that 70% of the time that it really doesn't matter, and most of that 15% it only matters a little bit, you're in P mode. Sure, I really don't think that matters one way or the other in that case, so I guess we agree there.

Yeah, I'm just going to have to change those percentages a bit. I'm saying that for 99% of most people's shots (the ones not at concerts with cycling power lights) using a camera in P mode produces solid consistent results where the camera doesn't drastically change things out of nowhere -- we're good. Honestly I don't take photos at concerts. When I do attend there aren't any cycling power lights and I'm there to listen to the music. We can add cycling power lights at concerts to the list of when you should use M; that works for me.

Joe

 

[unpopular]

I have a hard time believing that any camera system is going to be responsive enough to be affected by cycling lamps, there just isn't any reason for them to be.

 

[Derrel]

The thing I think people fail to understand is that you really can end up getting the same results regardless of which mode you use, they just attack the problem from different angles.

P mode starts with what it thinks the best combination of shutter speed and aperture are, and you can then adjust from there. So, for example when you know you're just going to want relatively straightforward exposures, it may be easier (or in terms that won't offend experienced photographers 'a more efficient workflow') to start with P and adjust as necessary. So, you see what P gives you, and you decide you want a bit more shallow DoF, then just adjust, P will fix the shutter speed for you, or you can change the ISO. I've began experimenting with P when doing street photography sometimes. In street, sometimes the moment is on you before you have a chance to get everything set up. If you see a shot coming and you can anticipate it, sure, then switch to manual or A or something. But having your camera ready to go with a relatively high ISO and in P mode guarantees that if something comes on you in a hurry, you get the moment. Which is much more important than some ephemeral badge of honor of shooting it in manual.

A (Av) mode attacks the problem by again giving you what it considers a proper exposure, but holding the aperture constant. As aperture is usually more important for artistic elements in photography, this is often something photographers do want control over. You can then decide you want a darker or brighter exposure than the camera thinks by using exposure compensation. Really, if you use EC heavily, A or S mode are literally the same exact thing as shooting in manual, just that the camera changes it's setting first and then you adjust, instead of having to adjust whenever the scene changes. For some shooting scenarios A is more efficient, in some M is more efficient. One isn't more of a 'true photographer' skill than the other. Just different approaches to the same problem.

S (Tv) is pretty much the exact same thing as A, except it gets used a bit less, because usually shutter speed doesn't change the artistic feel of the photo, unless you're using flash or shooting fast moving subjects.

M is sort of obvious in that you need to decide if the settings need to be changed.

The funniest thing in the world to me are the people who "always shoot in M, because I'm not an amateur", but essentially just shoot to center their light meter every time. Don't they realize that if you shoot that way, you're essentially shooting in A mode, but forcing yourself to turn the command dial instead of letting the camera do it? If you're going to shoot in M, then the whole point is ignoring what the in camera light meter is reading to some extent. The whole point of shooting in M is to use the light meter as a tool, but not a thing that tells you how to shoot. Yet some people will center the in camera light meter on literally every single shot they shoot in M. That drives me more crazy than the people who shoot in full auto.

zOMG... a shooter with a fricking BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Diz-Actly, x 10!!!

 

[Solarflare]

I dont remember using P mode recently. Thats because I just love shallow depth of field and usually stay at maximum aperture or only little below, so I use A mode all the time, and S mode if I want to play with time.

I only have a DSLR since June though. The two years before I used a bridge camera. In the beginning with my bridge camera, a Canon Powershot G11, I used P mode a lot because otherwise I couldnt change many settings. Basically I used P mode as an Auto mode.

On my new compact camera, I actually use M mode a lot. Thats because I can only do +/-2 EV exposure compensation.

 

[Murasaki]

I am using a bridging camera the Nikon P510 and at the moment using all the modes but Auto, I am using the 'P' Mode to learn how the Shutter Speed and Aperture work together to get a shot. In 'M' mode I have set the Shutter Speed and Aperture and then saved it to 'U' user mode for trying to take high speed shots of my insane rabbit doing the 'Bunny 500' around the house.

 

[Canuk]

So, you don't have time to stop and hold your camera steady for a split second, but you do have time to bump the shutter speed up to where you're underexposed?

I'm so confused here.

Exactly, I can switch it with one hand with the camera down at my side whilst walking. I am much more steady when I want them to have eye contact with the camera because I allow some time to elapse. My style for that is much harder to explain and hardly anyone gets it. Here's an example of one of those

If you are concerned w/ speed and being able to get the "candid" for street photography. You could always use the sunny 16 rule and get a much better exposed photo than this.
Street shooters have been doing this for a very long time w/ great results.

 

[Roger3006]

This has been an interesting thread. How in the world did those of us old enough to remember when many great cameras did not have a meter and an automatic flash did not exist. I think we made a EWAG and got amazingly good results. You would not believe some of my dads stuff he shot with a Graflex (sp) before WWII. Some were shot from a DC3 he was flying.

Things have come a long way since my pop used glass negatives although his photos still look great.

I think the answer to the original question has been answered. Experiment and find what works best for you and most importantly, have fun.

Yall have a great week.

 

[Tiberius47]

Av/Tv is the new M

I wish someone could explain to me what makes Program mode so inferior beyond a vague "lack of control".

But that's exactly what it is, a lack of control.

In A, S or M, you have control over how the image looks, in terms of DoF or amount of subject movement. In P mode you lose that because the camera is determining them. And the camera doesn't know that you want a slightly longer shutter speed because you're doing panning shots of racecars, or a shallow DoF because you are doing portraits. it just chooses a SS and A to give what it thinks is a decent exposure.

 

[Ysarex]

Av/Tv is the new M

I wish someone could explain to me what makes Program mode so inferior beyond a vague "lack of control".

But that's exactly what it is, a lack of control.

In A, S or M, you have control over how the image looks, in terms of DoF or amount of subject movement. In P mode you lose that because the camera is determining them. And the camera doesn't know that you want a slightly longer shutter speed because you're doing panning shots of racecars, or a shallow DoF because you are doing portraits. it just chooses a SS and A to give what it thinks is a decent exposure.

That is simply not correct. It was correct decades ago and may still be correct with some less sophisticated bridge/P&S cameras today, but it does not apply to a modern DSLR. A program shift feature is pretty standard today in DSLRs and is also incorporated into many bridge cameras. That gives P mode as much control as A(Av) and S(Tv) modes and, in conjunction with EC, as much control as M. P mode was inferior but that was changed years ago. The lack of control you identify is no longer there.

Joe

 

[dbvirago]

Knew this would be a fun thread to read when I saw the title but to answer the OP:
As others have said, I'll put it on P sometimes when I hand the camera to someone else. When on vacation and want a shot of me and my wife, I usually try to spot someone that A) has a DSLR and b) appears to know what they are doing. If not, put it on P and let them shoot. I use P in that situation rather than green so I can still get it in RAW in case it needs more work later than I can get out of a jpg.

Other times are when I am truly wanting snapshots. Recent cases in point, the office halloween party and before and after pictures of remodel work on home.

 

[fjrabon]

I have a hard time believing that any camera system is going to be responsive enough to be affected by cycling lamps, there just isn't any reason for them to be.

I can tell you they are from experience. At least Canon 7Ds are. If you try to shoot a high school football game with older slower cycling lights with a non AE locked auto mode, it goes CRAZY. You'll see your exposures jump from 1/200 to 1/800. Not exaggerating there. What makes it worse is that the adjustment then falls on the opposite end of the cycle, meaning that your shots tend to be off by as much as 4 stops in extreme cases.

 

[unpopular]

^^ interesting. I wonder why they made it so responsive?

 

[unpopular]

Av/Tv is the new M

I wish someone could explain to me what makes Program mode so inferior beyond a vague "lack of control".

But that's exactly what it is, a lack of control.

In A, S or M, you have control over how the image looks, in terms of DoF or amount of subject movement. In P mode you lose that because the camera is determining them. And the camera doesn't know that you want a slightly longer shutter speed because you're doing panning shots of racecars, or a shallow DoF because you are doing portraits. it just chooses a SS and A to give what it thinks is a decent exposure.

This really sounds like full auto mode, not program. I'll admit that program is a bit cumbersome, but "lack of control"? Not really.

 

[fjrabon]

^^ interesting. I wonder why they made it so responsive?

Yeah, I don't shoot under those conditions with anything but 7Ds, so I don't know if it's a 'that sensor/processor' thing that's only specific to those cameras and ones with the same sensor/processor combo. In my experience the 7D is hyper sensitive to everything, the smallest thing can float in front of you in servo mode and it needs to refocus, the tiniest bit of light enters the scene and it changes the exposure. Sometimes it's useful, most of the time it's frustrating.

 

[trojancast]

I shoot in Program Mode all the time. It is not a simple Auto setting, it is based on complex algorithms programmed into the camera. When shooting in P, you can see the f-stop and shutter speed the camera is using and you can change them at the twist of the control dial to suit your vision of the photo. It is similar to using M with auto-iso set, in which you set your f-stop and shutter speed to suit what you want out of the shot, while letting the auto-iso look after the exposure. The idea that pros use M all the time for creative control is nonsense. Many of us use Program and tweak from there. Go shoot the launch of a space rocket in Manual setting while clouds are moving in and changing light. The pros using P are getting the money shots.