paypal seller warning.

pixmedic · Jan 20, 2016

i have always been paranoid when buying and selling over the internet, even through Ebay, but this I did not know! I have been noticing lately on my Craigslist ads that scammers have been offering to pay using paypal, and even pay as a "gift for friends and family". For me, Craigslist is strictly cash only in person, but I did not know there was a way to scam people when you sent money via paypal as a gift.
they use a credit card for the "gift", THEY pay the PayPal credit card fee, and you get the full amount as the gift. then, after they get the item, they call the credit card company and report a fraudulent charge....and they get their money back, and PayPal takes it back from you.
so just a heads up to people, that like me, thought they were totally protected as a seller by taking the payment as a "gift".

BEWARE paypal GIFT chargeback fraud that will defraud SELLERS

Braineack · Jan 20, 2016

empty your account often, and paypal cant take funds from you.

pixmedic · Jan 20, 2016

Braineack said:
empty your account often, and paypal cant take funds from you.

not true.
your paypal account is directly linked to your bank account.
if you dont have funds in your regular account, either your bank will cover and you wind up in the negative, or paypal sends goons to break your legs until you pay them.

minicoop1985 · Jan 20, 2016

Exactly. Paypal can take from your bank account. I had it happen once when I was issuing a refund. Paypal froze funds in my bank account as well as in my Paypal to cover the refund, but this was a legit refund. I ALWAYS ask for an invoice or give one. I'll take the hit in fees to be sure I don't get f*&ked by some scammer.

480sparky · Jan 20, 2016

One can always close out your accounts at the bank. But you'll be hard-pressed to continue going through bank after bank doing that just to keep your money.

Not to mention you may not have a PayPal account as well.

Braineack · Jan 20, 2016

pixmedic said:
Braineack said:

empty your account often, and paypal cant take funds from you.

Click to expand...

not true.
your paypal account is directly linked to your bank account.
if you dont have funds in your regular account, either your bank will cover and you wind up in the negative, or paypal sends goons to break your legs until you pay them.

then move the money from that bank account.

pixmedic · Jan 20, 2016

Braineack said:
pixmedic said:

Braineack said:

empty your account often, and paypal cant take funds from you.

Click to expand...

not true.
your paypal account is directly linked to your bank account.
if you dont have funds in your regular account, either your bank will cover and you wind up in the negative, or paypal sends goons to break your legs until you pay them.

Click to expand...

they cant legally withdraw money from your linked accounts without your permission. that would be called theft.

its part of the paypal deal when you link your account with them. (which you have to do to use paypal)
as soon as you sign up with paypal, they have your permission.
do you use paypal as a seller? I have a paypal business account.

JacaRanda · Jan 20, 2016

From PayPal

3.6 Bank Transfers. When you use your bank account as your Payment Method for any transaction or to initiate an Add Money transaction, you are requesting an electronic transfer from your bank account. For these transactions, PayPal will make electronic transfers via ACH from your bank account in the amount you specify. You agree that such requests constitute your authorization to PayPal to make the transfers. Once you have provided your authorization for the transfer, you will not be able to cancel the electronic transfer. For Pay After Delivery transactions please see Section 3.14. You give PayPal the right to resubmit any ACH debit you authorized that is returned for insufficient or uncollected funds.

Braineack · Jan 20, 2016

That's for YOU paying for somethingdirectly from your bank, not your Paypal Account Balance, and then allowing Paypal to put your money back into your bank account if you were given a refund from the transaction.

HOWEVER:

10.2 Reimbursement for Your Liability. In the event that you are liable for any amounts owed to PayPal, PayPal may immediately remove such amounts from your Balance. If you do not have a Balance that is sufficient to cover your liability, your remaining Balance (if any) will be removed, your Account will have negative Balance up to the amount of your liability, and you will be required to immediately add funds to your Balance to eliminate the negative Balance. If you do not do so, PayPal may engage in collection efforts to recover such amounts from you.

this suggests YOU are required to add funds if you have a negative balance, from whatever, and they THEY can only send it to collections to recoop.

Noting in the user agreement suggests they can take money from your bank if you lose hold/dispute/chareback/reversal and didnt have the funds. only from your PayPal account. example:

b. Disputed Transaction Holds. If a User files a Dispute, Claim, Chargeback or Reversal on a payment you received, PayPal may place a temporary hold on the funds in your Account to cover the amount of the liability. If you win the dispute or the transaction is eligible for PayPal Seller protection, PayPal will lift the temporary hold. If you lose the dispute, PayPal will remove the funds from your Account.

even if PayPak "fines" you, again, they can't take the $2,500 fine out of your bank, only from your Accounts:

If you violate the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal's damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 USD per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal's actual damages considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated because, due to the nature of the violations of the Acceptable Use Policy, actual damages would be impractical or extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing Balance in the offending Account or any other Account you control.

and just to be clear:

16. Definitions.

"Account" means a Personal or Business PayPal account.
"Balance" means any amount of funds that you have in your Account, which could be a negative amount if buyers have initiated chargebacks against your Account or if you otherwise owe PayPal money. The terms "money" and "funds" are used interchangeably in this Agreement. A PayPal balance represents an unsecured claim against PayPal and is not insured by the FDIC.

pixmedic · Jan 20, 2016

Braineack said:
That's for YOU paying and allowing Paypal to put your money back if you were given a refund.

HOWEVER:

10.2 Reimbursement for Your Liability. In the event that you are liable for any amounts owed to PayPal, PayPal may immediately remove such amounts from your Balance. If you do not have a Balance that is sufficient to cover your liability, your remaining Balance (if any) will be removed, your Account will have negative Balance up to the amount of your liability, and you will be required to immediately add funds to your Balance to eliminate the negative Balance. If you do not do so, PayPal may engage in collection efforts to recover such amounts from you.

this suggests YOU are required to add funds if you have a negative balance, from whatever, and they THEY can only send it to collections to recoop.

if you dont care about your bank account or your credit rating, feel free to take whatever money from whomever you want with complete impunity. im just trying to warn people of a possible scam. If it were just a simple tactic as to remove the money from your paypal account, the scammers wouldn't be trying this. Also, the first time you do this, you can kiss your paypal account goodby. I like having a paypal account so i would really prefer to keep it in good standing. i also actually care about my credit rating so bills, like paypal, going to collections are a concern.

but if you feel that this is all a non issue, then just disregard this entire thread.

unpopular · Jan 20, 2016

Agree with others. When things go wrong on Paypal, they can go VERY, VERY wrong.

Braineack · Jan 20, 2016

pixmedic said:
if you dont care about your bank account or your credit rating, feel free to take whatever money from whomever you want with complete impunity. im just trying to warn people of a possible scam. If it were just a simple tactic as to remove the money from your paypal account, the scammers wouldn't be trying this. Also, the first time you do this, you can kiss your paypal account goodby. I like having a paypal account so i would really prefer to keep it in good standing. i also actually care about my credit rating so bills, like paypal, going to collections are a concern.

but if you feel that this is all a non issue, then just disregard this entire thread.

no, it's good to watch out for. Even if they do (or dont) recover from your bank, and take your paypal balance, that's no fun.

Dont accept gift payments for goods. it's as simple as that, you want to get the protections you pay paypal for. Paypal is very buyer friendly, even if they are legit trying to screw you.