Penn Station New York arrest

[tirediron]

Here we go....

 

[Kegger]

You're the one who said, and I quote "This is why we should be racially profiling."

So don't try to go noble now. And being 90% correct is what our current laws seem to go by, we falsely imprison innocent people all the time. Why? Because they fit a profile. So why should we base how we see people, on a profile, when that screws decent people as well. Yeah, yeah, you can say that it gets the bad guy all day long. But until it stops getting good people, you're still in the wrong.

 

[stsinner]

You're the one who said, and I quote "This is why we should be racially profiling."

So don't try to go noble now. And being 90% correct is what our current laws seem to go by, we falsely imprison innocent people all the time. Why? Because they fit a profile. So why should we base how we see people, on a profile, when that screws decent people as well. Yeah, yeah, you can say that it gets the bad guy all day long. But until it stops getting good people, you're still in the wrong.

Do you really think we'll ever reach a level of competence where only true criminals will be accused of crimes? That would be great, but I don't see it, unfortunately.

 

[KD5NRH]

What the **** are railroad "police" doing with handcuffs anyway???? What's next, Mall-cops with side-arms?

Well, here in TX, whatever they call the health-department guys who check dentists' offices, they're specifically treated as law-enforcement for the purposes of being able to carry weapons. (Yes, specifically the ones inspecting dental facilities. I don't recall if any other specializations are in there, but it seemed odd for that one to be mentioned in particular.) OTOH, I've got a friend that's a dentist, and she's never seen one carrying during an inspection.

Then again, here in TX, if they're called "police," odds are they're commissioned law enforcement, and armed. The state is pretty picky about any private security being misidentified as law enforcement. Private security may be commissioned and armed, but they're a lot more expensive than the unarmed ones. Armed security officers do generally carry roughly the same duty belt load as regular law enforcement unless the client specifies otherwise.

 

[usayit]

What the **** are railroad "police" doing with handcuffs anyway???? What's next, Mall-cops with side-arms?

Police are police who are licensed and trained with handcuffs and side-arms. It does not matter their jurisdiction. They are to serve and protect which requires being ready and equipped properly. Do not confuse them with security guards who are not required to "serve and protect". Often, they are simply an extra set of eyes to notify the authorities when necessary. In certain areas, the mall-cops are full police officers from either neighboring towns or state officers. A long time ago, I befriended a college campus officer during my education. I was surprised to discover that he is actually a state level police officer whose jurisdiction is actually the entire state even though he is assigned to focus on the college campus. This was strange given that his jurisdiction was actually wider than the city police in which the campus is located.

 

[usayit]

One more comment regarding racial profiling...

The issue we have is Radical Islam. Please remember that radical Islam is not bound by any geographic boundaries nor racial lines. You have radical Islamic groups in Asia (I am most familiar with the groups in the Philippines), middle-east, UK, USA, Africa, and small groups in practically every continent in the world.

You (stsinner) are asking for common sense. Common sense would easily identify racial profiling as a complete and utter waste of time... you'd basically be profiling anyone who is not caucasian. A person with common sense would open their mind, do a little researching (history), do a little soul searching, and think before you speak (without hiding behind the no politics rule).

Don't bring crime into the picture either.. some of the most notorious serial killers are not easily profiled either; white male, educated.

 

[stsinner]

One more comment regarding racial profiling...

The issue we have is Radical Islam. Please remember that radical Islam is not bound by any geographic boundaries nor racial lines. You have radical Islamic groups in Asia (I am most familiar with the groups in the Philippines), middle-east, UK, USA, Africa, and small groups in practically every continent in the world.

You (stsinner) are asking for common sense. Common sense would easily identify racial profiling as a complete and utter waste of time... you'd basically be profiling anyone who is not caucasian. A person with common sense would open their mind, do a little researching (history), do a little soul searching, and think before you speak (without hiding behind the no politics rule).

Don't bring crime into the picture either.. some of the most notorious serial killers are not easily profiled either; white male, educated.

So we should do nothing-look at no facts or trending.. Not look at laws of averages.. Just be surprised by every crime... Neat.

Don't bring crime into the picture? Isn't the entire reason for the Amtrak police arresting this photographer fear of a crime? Again.. Neat.. Doesn't it feel good not to think.....

 

[usayit]

So we should do nothing-look at no facts or trending.. Not look at laws of averages.. Just be surprised by every crime... Neat.

Nope. but common sense and an educated background would easily conclude that profiling across racial lines is a complete and utter waste of time. And no.. you can't just change the topic by "removing" the fact that you specifically stated race. Profiling and racial profiling are two completely different things. Most of what you post is trying to justify "ends justify the means" attitude. You do remember the great mind Benjamin Franklin:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

That is applicable to all crimes.....

Don't bring crime into the picture? Isn't the entire reason for the Amtrak police arresting this photographer fear of a crime? Again.. Neat.. Doesn't it feel good not to think.....

No... the issue is that you find it totally wrong that a photographer can be profiled as a terrorist while supporting profiling of other people. Kinda sounds like "its ok" as long it is not me... ignorance. The rest of your posts is simply a bunch of "what ifs" to justify your stance with little to no substance. You still ignore the fact that most terrorist acts on US soil has been committed by white males and serial killers are white educated males. You also ignore the fact that Radical islam doesn't live in a person that looks like a terrorist.

BTW.. thanks for your service in the Army but nothing you posted there can justify nor make you anymore credible. You could be a former slave and it still would have absolutely nothing to do wiht the topic at hand... except that it is even more surprising that you would condone racial profiling.


Dark skinned turban wearing avatar
Army soldier with mixed family
Mixing racial profiling with freedom
Calling a reaction to separate treatment along racial lines an emotional reacition
Not understanding that Radical islam is not racial
..etc...

and you say we are lacking in common sense?

 

[table1349]

This is why we should be racially profiling. We can't just ban all photography of anything that could be a terrorist target. That's just not freedom. A little common sense on the part of the authorities would go a long way..

I had intended to just read this thread and pass it by as the one problem from my standpoint with all of the treads like this is they are all one sided. It would be nice to read about these after they have reached their conclusion and everyone can have their say. Be that as it may, this one I just can't ignore.

Racial profiling is defined as any police-initiated action that relies on the race, ethnicity, or national origin rather than the behavior of an individual or information that leads the police to a particular individual who has been identified as being, or having been, engaged in criminal activity. Police may not use racial or ethnic stereotypes as factors in selecting whom to stop-and-search, and police may use race or ethnicity to determine whether a person matches a specific description of a particular suspect.

Quick and simple definition of what racial profiling is and is not. With that Racial Profiling is something that should never occur! It is intolerable and there is absolutely NO justification for racial profiling. There wasn't twenty seven years ago when I joined the law enforcement community and there is none today.

tirediron; What the **** are railroad "police" doing with handcuffs anyway???? What's next, Mall-cops with side-arms?

http://www.oig.dot.gov/StreamFile?file=/data/pdfdocs/cc2004013.pdf

From the US Department of Transportation. Explains exactly why railroad police have handcuffs, guns, bullets, arrest authority, etc. Because they are commissioned law enforcement and their jurisdiction is the railroads and railroad property.

quote=stsinner;Oh boy-don't try that with me. I was an active-duty soldier in the Army for 8 years, and I have many very good friends of many ethnicities and religions, in addition to a black step-son. I wouldn't have lasted 8 years in the Army if I was racist, and you know that full-well being a soldier.

My family was/is Navy/Marines and my wife's family is Air Force with a couple of brothers that made careers out of the Army. I will tell you first hand as can the rest of the family that there are many in the services that have not only lasted longer than 8 years, but have had entire careers in the armed forces and been racist. That's like saying there have never been homosexuals in the military. Your above statement is still no justification for suggesting something like racial profiling. There are some things that are just flat out wrong and racial profiling is one of them!

 

[tirediron]

Police are police who are licensed and trained with handcuffs and side-arms. It does not matter their jurisdiction.

Fair comment; I guess my surprise is that a private company is allowed to maintain its own police-force. There's enough problems with legitimate, government law-enforcement entities.

 

[stsinner]

Dark skinned turban wearing avatar
Army soldier with mixed family
Mixing racial profiling with freedom
Calling a reaction to separate treatment along racial lines an emotional reacition
Not understanding that Radical islam is not racial
..etc...

and you say we are lacking in common sense?

I think that my experiences and my current situation make me more qualified than most to participate in discussions revolving around race.. It's too bad you're unwilling to learn from my experience. I've done a little bit of it all, including living for two years in Germany, 6 months in Switzerland, 4 years in Arizona and in 5 other states in America.. I've don'e my share of living , but you seem to think that I don't have a clue as to what I'm talkling about.. One of us is in denial.

 

[epp_b]

I think we simply have to accept that are artists (us) and non-artists (police officers, mostly). Those inartistic philistines will never be able to understand why we enjoy doing what we do and will revert to the default setting of the terminally stupid: threats and violence.

If they tried using even a modicum of common sense, they'd realize that no terrorist would use big, heavy, conspicuous SLR. They'd use the tiniest point-and-shoot they could find or some sort of obfuscated camera.

"Security" is a scapegoat excuse for childish xenophobia.

 

[stsinner]

Quick and simple definition of what racial profiling is and is not. With that Racial Profiling is something that should never occur! It is intolerable and there is absolutely NO justification for racial profiling. There wasn't twenty seven years ago when I joined the law enforcement community and there is none today.

One stupid statement..

 

[usayit]

I think that my experiences and my current situation make me more qualified than most to participate in discussions revolving around race.. It's too bad you're unwilling to learn from my experience. I've done a little bit of it all, including living for two years in Germany, 6 months in Switzerland,c 4 years in Arizona and in 5 other states in America.. I've don'e my share of living , but you seem to think that I don't have a clue as to what I'm talkling about.. One of us is in denial.

You are delusional that anything you say brings more credibility.... you don't even know me and you are making assumptions about my education and background. Nothing you point out makes you any more knowledgeable. It is painfully obvious in your posts.

You can't even address any of my concerns/comments directly. Please explain why profiling a photographer as a suspected terrorist/criminal is any different than racial profiling.

 

[stsinner]

You are delusional that anything you say brings more credibility.... you don't even know me and you are making assumptions about my education and background. Nothing you point out makes you any more knowledgeable. It is painfully obvious in your posts.

I'm listening. Surprise me. Let me know how you are qualified to call me racist when I was raised by racist parents, joined the Army at 18, bonded with every race known to man, put my life in the hands of fellow soldiers of all ethnicities during Desert Storm and maintain close bonds with friends from all over the world 10 years later and am proudly raising a black step-son with my white wife... Please tell me how you are more qualified to comment on race issues... I'm dyin' to hear..

You know, I'm very proud of how I've strayed from my father's Tennessee upbringing of me where every other word was the n-word, but I'm not willing to let the pendulum swing so far in the other direction that I'm not observant of common sense and the fact that certain races commit the majority of certain crimes.. It's a simple matter of research... Facts are stubborn things..