Pentax K-r ?

[Romphotog]

I am in the market for a DSLR w/movie mode, preferrably a 18-55mm lens kit such as a Canon - EOS Digital Rebel T3 12.2MP, Nikon D5000. Both are within my budget. But, I see the PENTAX - K-r with 18-55mm Lens Kit goes for $250 more for some reason. Same MPs & lens. What's the deal here?

 

[KmH]

The Pentax has it's image stabilization system built right into the camera. Nikon and Canon put their image stabilization in their lenses. So, if you have multiple lenses, you may also buy several image stabilization systems. The Pentax is also the only one of the 3 to have a stainless steel chassis. The Canon and Nikon both have a plastic chassis.

Note that in the following image sensor comparison the Canon isn't in the same class as the Pentax and the Nikon. Nikon has the best low light (high ISO) performance of the 3 you listed: DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

 

[highergr0und]

Pentax also shoots at 6 fps and has a lot of cross type af points. It's a very well spec'd camera. There are some concerns with front focusing in tungsten light though.And it shouldn't be $250 more. Adorama has the d5000 with kit lens for $500 right now on special (not a refurb). Should be able to get the pentaxfor 625 or so and a dual lens pentax setup for under 700.

 

[audiobomber]

In addition to the above, the Rebel and K-r have in-body lens motors. The Nikon can only focus lenses lenses that have a built-in motor, which limits the number of lenses it can use and impacts cost. Also the Pentax is the only one that allows wireless flash and high-speed synch to an external flash. I don't think Pentax is very good for video because you can't autofocus while shooting.

You should also look at what lenses you are likely to buy. That can make more difference than purchase price in the long run.

 

[chaosrealm93]

+ 1 to the above. the lens selection from pentax was what made me turn away and go to nikon. (canon is also a valid alternative)

 

[KmH]

In addition to the above, the Rebel ..... have in-body lens motors.

You are mis-informed.

None of Canon's camera's have had an in-the-body focus motor in them since 1987 when Canon introduced the EOS line.

Canon's EOS

was designed with no mechanical linkages between moving parts in the lens and in the camera. The aperture and focus are controlled via electrical contacts, with motors in the lens itself.

Canon EOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most of Nikon's lenses that don't have a focus motor in them, cost more than the lenses a neophyte considering a D3000 would be able to afford.

For example:

Nikon's AF-S 35 mm f/1.8G has a focus motor and is $200 retail, new.
Nikon's AF 35 mm f/12D doesn't have a focus motor and is $365 retail, new.
Nikon's NIKKOR 35 mm f/1.4 manual focus only lens has a MSRP of $1800.

Camera Lenses | All NIKKOR Lenses for Digital SLR Cameras| Nikon

 

[Romphotog]

+ 1 to the above. the lens selection from pentax was what made me turn away and go to nikon. (canon is also a valid alternative)

I agree. A lack of dealers stocking Pentax gear worries me. Big stores such as J&R, B&H, Adorama, have them, but that's it. Ifcourse there is online.Also, Pentax might go the way of Minolta. I think I'll stick with either Canon or Nikon unless I could get a real good deal on zoom and macro lenses.

 

[KmH]

Minolta is still around, but is today branded as Sony since Sony bought the camera making part of Konica/Minolta in 2006.

 

[audiobomber]

In addition to the above, the Rebel ..... have in-body lens motors.

You are mis-informed.

None of Canon's camera's have had an in-the-body focus motor in them since 1987 when Canon introduced the EOS line.

So no EOS can focus a screw drive lens? That can't be right.

Most of Nikon's lenses that don't have a focus motor in them, cost more than the lenses a neophyte considering a D3000 would be able to afford.

For example:

Nikon's AF-S 35 mm f/1.8G has a focus motor and is $200 retail, new.
Nikon's AF 35 mm f/12D doesn't have a focus motor and is $365 retail, new.
Nikon's NIKKOR 35 mm f/1.4 manual focus only lens has a MSRP of $1800.

You're cherry picking. But aside from that, no built-in focus motor limits your choice of lenses.

 

[KmH]

Correct, no EOS camera can focus a screw-drive, auto focus lens. The EOS system has no mechanical connections between the camera and lens.

EOS = Electro Optical System.

Look at this photo of a Canon EF mount, and look for a screw drive; File:Canon EF camera mount.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And, here is the EF-S mount; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Canon_EF-S_camera_mount.jpg

There aren't that many currently offered Nikon lenses that don't have a focus motor in them.

There are a few of exceptions, but only a few, like the AF 50 mm f/1.8D and the el cheapo, not worth the money AF 70-300 mm f/4-5.6G are less expensive than offered AF-S lenses.

Visit http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Products/Camera-Lenses/All-Lenses/index.page and look at the MSRP for the AF lenses.

Lens cost is driven more by maximum lens aperture than if it has, or does not have, a focus motor. Another often overlooked cost factor is VR, but VR is also less of a cost driver than lens max aperture.

 

[Dao]

Agree with Keith, the Canon EOS lines camera use EF (or EF-S in some models) lens. EF stands for "Electro-Focus" in which a electric motor is build inside the lens.

As for Nikon, they already have great collection of AF-S lenses now and I believe all the newer lens design will be AF-S (Until they introduce a newer design in the future). So personally I do not think missing in body focus motor is a big issue now.

 

[audiobomber]

Correct, no EOS camera can focus a screw-drive, auto focus lens. The EOS system has no mechanical connections between the camera and lens.

EOS = Electro Optical System.

Ah thanks, I get it now, no AF drive in the body, because all current Canon lenses have an AF motor. Can a screw lens be mounted and manually focussed on an EOS camera? From the lack of contacts, I assume no auto-aperture if the lens has an A position?

There aren't that many currently offered Nikon lenses that don't have a focus motor in them.

There are a few of exceptions, but only a few, like the AF 50 mm f/1.8D and the el cheapo, not worth the money AF 70-300 mm f/4-5.6G are less expensive than offered AF-S lenses.

Visit Camera Lenses | All NIKKOR Lenses for Digital SLR Cameras| Nikon and look at the MSRP for the AF lenses.

Yeah, there are some inexpensive lenses, probably with quality to match, but I see a lot of lenses that are not useable on the lower level Nikons. There are criticisms above that Pentax doesn't have a lot of lenses. But when you consider that all K-mount lenses, past and present will mount and are fully functional on all current Pentax bodies, I think there's more variety in Pentax than a motor-less Nikon. Pentax has a pretty reasonable lineup of digital lenses, the exception being supertele (beyond 300mm).

Lens cost is driven more by maximum lens aperture than if it has, or does not have, a focus motor. Another often overlooked cost factor is VR, but VR is also less of a cost driver than lens max aperture.

I'm a Pentax user, I don't have to try and figure out if a lens has a screw or will mount. They all mount, even fully manual lenses meter, and they all have shake reduction on a Pentax DSLR. Yesterday I used a $40 Sears A 135mm, today I used a Kiron 28mm f2. Legacy lenses are inexpensive and fun.

 

[KmH]

Ya, it's to bad the Pentax/Sony/Olympus has the image stabilization (IS) system in the camera body. You can't see the IS working in the viewfinder like you can when the IS is in the lens (like Nikon and Canon), so you don't know when the image stabilizes so you can release the shutter.

In-the-body IS also limits the amplitude of movement the system can correct, and of course if it quits working you're just SOL until you get it repaired. Mirror Up doesn't help a lot if some other sytem is still moving around right before the shutter opens.

Nikon hasn't changed their mount since 1959, so most all Nikon lenses made since then will work on any Nikon film or digital body. About the only exception to that is a couple of the specialty Nikonos underwater cameras. Of course, cameras in 1959 had virtually no electronics so though old Nikon lenses will work on today's cameras they may not meter, aperture may need to be set manually, and they may not auto focus, but if someone has a good grounding in the technical aspects of doing photography, none of that's much of a problem.

 

[audiobomber]

Ya, it's to bad the Pentax/Sony/Olympus has the image stabilization (IS) system in the camera body. You can't see the IS working in the viewfinder like you can when the IS is in the lens (like Nikon and Canon), so you don't know when the image stabilizes so you can release the shutter.

You can tell when Pentax Shake Reduction is ready because there's a logo that appears at the bottom of your viewfinder. I don't mind too much that the image in the viewfinder does not stabilize. Seeing shake reminds me to settle down and use good holding technique.

In-the-body IS also limits the amplitude of movement the system can correct, and of course if it quits working you're just SOL until you get it repaired. Mirror Up doesn't help a lot if some other sytem is still moving around right before the shutter opens.

A lot of people in forums use multiple brands. Common lore is that in-lens has a stop or so advantage with long telephoto lenses. OTOH, all lenses are stabilized with in-body systems, and you only pay for stabilization once. The best of all worlds is to have a choice. SR can be disabled when it's not needed, but I only turn it off when using a tripod. If you don't have a stabilized body or lens, then you don't have the choice. There are stabilized third-party lenses available for Pentax, in which case you have to disable one stabilization system or the other. Most people report no difference except possibly with super telephotos.

I don't know that there's any greater risk of failure from in-body or in-lens systems. One thing I do know is that I keep my bodies a few years, but I intend to keep my lenses forever. Stabilization in the lens would be more likely to fail, because of longer service. Which brings up another advantage of SR. Pentax has improved their system twice. The K-5 for example has double the range of motion compared to a K-r. It also compensates for rotational motion, which neither the K-r nor in-lens systems can manage. It is likely that improvements will continue to be made, and will benefit every lens.

What you said about the sensor moving during the exposure is incorrect. Sensor motion starts with the shutter action and stops before the exposure starts. Here's the patent that explains it:

Application # 2008/0226276. ANTI-SHAKE APPARATUS - Patents.com

Nikon hasn't changed their mount since 1959, so most all Nikon lenses made since then will work on any Nikon film or digital body. About the only exception to that is a couple of the specialty Nikonos underwater cameras. Of course, cameras in 1959 had virtually no electronics so though old Nikon lenses will work on today's cameras they may not meter, aperture may need to be set manually, and they may not auto focus, but if someone has a good grounding in the technical aspects of doing photography, none of that's much of a problem.

There are different levels of accomodation though? I believe the D7000 for example has better compatibility than the D90, and both have better compatibility than the D5100 and D3100.

Sorry if I'm a little ignorant of other brands. I only know how Pentax works. If I use a fully manual lens in Av mode, it will expose properly but the aperture will be wide open. If I use M mode, I mechanically move the aperture to set f-stop, and then I hit the "green button" and the camera will meter (i.e. the camera will automatically set the shutter speed for proper exposure). Do Nikon and Canon have this feature or something similar?

I'll be away from my computer for a few days. Hopefully we can catch up later. It's been informative and pleasant chatting with you.