permission or not?

[SimplyMo]

im looking for every photographer's oppinion possible on this topic... it's my biggest weakness as a photographer that loves photographing people, especially candid--in everyday life.

when you're photographing people, in public, do you ask for people's permission? or do you shoot sort of inconspicuously (try to just blend in with the public)? do you use a zoom lens?
or do you just not care whether your noticed or not (unless someone says something)?


i'm just curious.. i used to be a fearless photographer...i lived in south korea for a couple years, and i had one bad experience. me not being asian, i surely stood out in a crowd. i was standing a bit far from a food stand, shooting the food stand and the surrounding people, and this tiny old woman came out of nowhere and almost hit the camera out of my hands... :stun: i know i shouldn't let one incident get in the way....

 

[tirediron]

If you're shooting an image of a single person, or one in which a single individual will be prominent, than yes, definitely ask permission, especially if you intend to publish it.

 

[timbearden]

If by any means you plan to publish it, then yes ask for permission. There was a lawsuit a while back for a company where someone's shadow was in the photo. They actually won the suit because there shadow was in the photo.

I realize there are many photo opportunities that you could loose if you take the time to ask people. However, if you plan to use the photos for something other than your own pleasure then you always risk the chance of legal action. Even posting photos on this forum could cross a gray line if you don't have their permission.

I'd just rather be safe, than non safe.

 

[cdanddvdpublisher]

If by any means you plan to publish it, then yes ask for permission. There was a lawsuit a while back for a company where someone's shadow was in the photo. They actually won the suit because there shadow was in the photo.

I realize there are many photo opportunities that you could loose if you take the time to ask people. However, if you plan to use the photos for something other than your own pleasure then you always risk the chance of legal action. Even posting photos on this forum could cross a gray line if you don't have their permission.

I'd just rather be safe, than non safe.

+1. If anyone is recognizable or could be recognized in your photos, you're going to want to make sure that you have permission before posting it anywhere (even in a blog or on a personal web site).

 

[manaheim]

Well...

There are a few different "levels" here.

NOTE: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

Technically you are legally allowed to take pictures of anyone you like unless you are taking a picture of them in a situation where they would have a reasonable expectation of privacy... for example, using a zoom lense while in a tree taking pictures of them in their kitchen would be considered unacceptable and potentially illegal.

At no time is anyone ever allowed to demand your camera/film/equipment. Nor are they allowed to demand that you dispose of pictures in any way shape or form. Nor are they allowed to harm you or your equipment in any way.

Now...

If you intend to use the picture for commercial purposes, you do not need to "ask their permission". You need to obtain a signed release. Getting verbal permission isn't going to do you squat if it comes to lawsuit time.

In a quick search, I couldn't find this again on the internet, so I put this form up for you. This is a model release developed by a stock photography website intended to be used by people such as you and I (it enables us to get releases so we can put our pictures up on their site so they can make money.)

At this link you will find some information developed by an attourney about your rights as a photographer. I actually have several copies of this and the model release form printed, and I carry them around with me.

Laws may vary by state, of course, so you gotta be careful on this stuff, but as far as I personally know, this is correct... again... not an attourney.

 

[KristinaS]

^^ Manaheim is correct.

I'd also like to add a few other circumstances. If you are a photojournalist working for a newspaper, you do not need to ask permission to shoot people in public areas unless the subject has a reasonable expectation of privacy as this falls under editorial usage.

Art also falls under editorial usage. You do not need permission from a subject if you, say, take their picture and plan to sell it in an art gallery or whatever.

 

[timbearden]

This is all very true....which is why I bring forms with me to weddings so that I can use the photos online etc.

 

[reg]

which is why I bring forms with me to weddings so that I can use the photos online etc.

I believe that's called a "contract".

 

[timbearden]

I believe that's called a "contract".

Thanks for stating the obvious, but it could also be called a photography release, consent to use, etc.

The contract covers the bride and groom, but does not cover everyone else. Which is why I bring forms, or as you say contracts, for everyone else I wish to post online.

 

[reg]

Thanks for stating the obvious, but it could also be called a photography release, consent to use, etc.

Thanks for stating the obvious, but I was referring to the contract you get the B&G to sign. I'm sure you have a clause in there that says you can use all images taken in your portfolio, right?

 

[timbearden]

Thanks for stating the obvious, but I was referring to the contract you get the B&G to sign. I'm sure you have a clause in there that says you can use all images taken in your portfolio, right?

Yes you are correct I do have that clause in the contract, but it doesn't necessarily cover photographs of other people in it.

 

[manaheim]

Yes you are correct I do have that clause in the contract, but it doesn't necessarily cover photographs of other people in it.

Thanks for stating the obvious, but I was referring to the contract you get the B&G to sign. I'm sure you have a clause in there that says you can use all images taken in your portfolio, right?

Actually it absolutely doesn't cover any of the guests, unless all the guests sign some sort of waiver of rights as a condition of attending the wedding. I don't recall ever doing that at a wedding.

You have to get explicit individual signed releases from each guest you have in a picture that you want to use commercially. These are most commonly called "releases".

 

[ThePup]

I'd also like to add a few other circumstances. If you are a photojournalist working for a newspaper, you do not need to ask permission to shoot people in public areas unless the subject has a reasonable expectation of privacy

And here's the kicker - If you're NOT a photojournalist working for a newspaper, you STILL do not need to ask permission to shoot people in public areas unless the subject has a reasonable expectation of privacy. Seriously, for most, if not all of the US, and Australia, just wander out into the streets, snap away at will, you're not breaking any laws at all. There is cavets to this, thinks like upskirting, expectations of privacy and the like, but if you're not being stupid, or being a pervert, you're legally fine.

This is true for Australia, and as far as I'm aware, US, since most of our laws are a byproduct of there anyway, and I believe a decent chunk of Europe as well (France being the biggest contraindication?)

Morally, well that's up to the individual. If you don't like it, or don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't.

Standard disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer, seek professional advice, do not drive if affected, take two asprin and consult a medical practitioner in the morning, etc, etc...

 

[patrickt]

I'm not addressing the legalities but rather the ethics. And, it varies. I don't always ask but I do sometimes. I know another photographer who uses a large white telephoto to take "candid" shots. I'm not comfortable doing that.

If I'm shooting one or two people, I frequently ask. I don't ask if someone is performing in public like a mime or a clown or even a weaver giving a demonstration. If someone is working in public I usually ask. If it involves a child I always ask the parents if they're around.

For street scenes with a lot of people I just shoot away.

My asking sometimes is as simple as raising the camera a bit and smiling. If the people smile back I assume I have permission. If they flip me off I probably don't.

I've also found when I ask people they tend to pose--for a bit--and then lose interest and go back to doing whatever they were doing.

Sometimes I ask after the picture is taken.

 

[Bifurcator]

im looking for every photographer's oppinion possible on this topic... it's my biggest weakness as a photographer that loves photographing people, especially candid--in everyday life.

when you're photographing people, in public, do you ask for people's permission?

If you mean stuff like this:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130820
http://thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130822
http://thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130824
http://thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130826

Then no of course you don't need to ask. That would be totally absurd and contrary to the art form! On the other hand it might be a nice way to meet people too.

But if you want to "feature" someone then you need to or that too would be absurd.

or do you shoot sort of inconspicuously (try to just blend in with the public)?

Both is good. Both is different and gets different shots, expression, and actions/reactions.

do you use a zoom lens?

Like all photography it depends on the shot but if you're using a 20mm lens and want a face shot I guess you better ask the person.

do you just not care whether your noticed or not (unless someone says something)?

I don't care if I'm noticed at all. In the links above I guess I was noticed for just about every shot. I made 2 new friends (one a cute young girl!) There was a few where I kinda hid behind a telephone pole though I do care about not pissing people off. If they get upset just pan up into the sky like you're adjusting your camera or something and then don't take their photo again. Why ruin someone's day. If they don't dig it don't do it.

i'm just curious.. i used to be a fearless photographer...i lived in south korea for a couple years, and i had one bad experience. me not being asian, i surely stood out in a crowd. i was standing a bit far from a food stand, shooting the food stand and the surrounding people, and this tiny old woman came out of nowhere and almost hit the camera out of my hands... :stun: i know i shouldn't let one incident get in the way....

Do what you want. If you want to curtail your behavior based on that experience then that's what you should do. Hitting is worse though. I think I would have started clowning around with her if it were me. <evil me>