Photography---is an opinionisitic art form

[Bitter Jeweler]

When you go to a museum or gallery, does the art come with a little placard that says what the artist's intent was?

Name and date is all I usually see.


The art should be able to stand on it's own.

It's up to the viewer to figure out what it means.

The big difference is, the creator of the works in a museum, or gallery, are, get this...
not asking for a critique and how to get better.

Neither are most of the people posting pictures here.

<insert ORLY Owl here>

 

[SNBniko]

I LOVE THE ORLY OWL!

 

[Josh66]

<insert ORLY Owl here>

Believe it or not, most of the pictures here are posted in the gallery sections, not the beginners section.

If you only post in the beginners section, it might seem that everyone is asking for C&C, but that is only a small part of the forum.

I have noticed very few posts in the gallery sections asking for C&C. Photos are usually presented more like "Well, here it is". Maybe with a little description of it. Often with nothing at all but the photo.



edit
Also, you're going to get C&C whether you ask for it or not. All I'm saying is that 'knowing the intent' is not a requirement for C&C.

If you have to explain the photo, it has already failed.

 

[Overread]

If you have to explain the photo, it has already failed.

Yes and no - a photo has to stand on its own merits - however I feel that with a photo alone one can tell many possible stories - sometimes a photographers needs to add more than the photo can say - or more correctly to help guide the viewer to understand what they are seeing within the photo itself.

 

[Josh66]

however I feel that with a photo alone one can tell many possible stories

I agree completely.

sometimes a photographers needs to add more than the photo can say - or more correctly to help guide the viewer to understand what they are seeing within the photo itself.

Once you do this, then the photo only has one meaning, and any of the other possibilities the viewer might have came to are no longer valid. Someone might see something much more profound in it than you have ever imagined. It's my opinion that you should leave it open to them to figure out.

Sometimes, I guess that's the goal - this is this, and nothing else. Other times, it's better to leave it wide open. Once you say what it is, or what it means - it's like saying that everyone who thought something else is wrong.

 

[Overread]

OIIIIIO I guess it differs depending on if you are showing art alone with your photo - by which point I agree its best to leave it open to the viewer to interpret - or if you are trying to show something more deliberate with the photo - something more educational; journalistic; expressive, maybe just showing and explaining the greater context of the scene that the photo is a part of.

 

[Josh66]

Yes, I agree that sometimes there is only one right answer. To me, that would be boring text-book stuff, lol. Diagrams or whatever. Technical stuff - you know what I mean.

To some extent, I would include photo-journalism in that too, but not really... Even that can (and should) have multiple meanings. Is it depicting the struggle of the working class, or is it just some rebels on a truck?
In photo-journalism specifically, I think the 'photo' part should remain fairly open, but the 'journalism' part should be giving you the facts. Even then, it's still open to interpretation. Unless they make it an opinion piece and come right out and tell you what you should think about it. (And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that either.)

I mean, you're going to know what it is, e.g. rebels on a truck, but that doesn't mean that they have to tell you what it means.


Am I making sense?

 

[mishele]

Art...yes should be able to stand on it's own merit. We all agree on that.
My opinion differs if you are asking for C&C. Even the simple question, how does this make you feel, will help you give feed back. The artist doesn't have to give the whole storyline away. If they are looking for help to convey something, they need to give you some insight.

 

[Overread]

Yes and no
Remember allowing an audience to read what they will of a journalists photo can result in them reading the totally wrong message - you can't blame that on the photographer because the nature of interpretation is also reliant on the interpreters experiences and influences. This is fine for purely artistic creations, but in the journalistic world it can bring with it the tarnish of missinformation -- so in that world I feel that whilst a photo might say 1000 words it needs a few key words to go with it to make sure that the audience is reading the right 1000 words.

 

[LiquidGrace]

When I give or take critiques I try to see it from their point of view. Then I evaluate if I agree with their comments or not. I'm a C&C junkie I love getting it because I knwo with a bunch of strangers I'll get an honest answer over some shy friends and family. I guess I know with coming to an online forum you have to have a thicker skin. Understand that none of it is personal and if people are going to spend the time looking at my photos and picking it apart I'll appreciate it. Why ? Because they didn't' have to take the time to look at my photos and help me learn.

In the same light I think some miss out on tactfully giving criticism. Some times the rude comments come out of no where. But that's a reflection of the critique not necessarily the work being produced. When I give critiques I try to give them with the knowledge I have. I go over things I have improved on and try to help the person fix the errors I can help explain to fix. However most of the time I feel I am under qualified to even give an opinion short of. "OOF, DOF, Better lighting." I can't get into specifics such as key lighting etc. I try to stick to the technical aspects of the photo I'm viewing. If I feel something was cut off that shouldn't be etc. But I can only give advice / knowledge on the things I actually know. The rest I don't feel up to par in giving advice. A photo I'd see as 'amazing' could be a fix up project to another photographer who is far more seasoned and technically sound then I am.

It's a game of give and take.

• When you post your photos understand you will get some who don't like it and some that will. Also understand that sometimes people don't sugar coat things. Not to take it personally but actually see what they're trying to teach you and learn from it. Don't let someone's words get to you, read between the lines. Also never let someone be the cause of you quitting. If someones words cause you to quit your passion that isn't on them. It's all in how you internalize Criticism. If you are a sensitive person then perhaps reading more and honing your craft is perhaps better than always posting for C&C's.

• . When you give criticism think of how you'd appreciate someone to teach you. Do you learn well if someone essentially makes fun of you and takes jabs at you? Or do you learn better if someone respects that your trying to better yourself and gives you tips on how to help yourself. There's always more then one way to give advice.

All in all I think you'll find this to be a common trend when you go to any online forum. Not just photography specific. Forums are so diversified it's to me very refreshing. I've learned things here from photographers that I couldn't just learn in a classroom or with local photographers. Sometimes it comes from a person 10000miles away from you. This is why I adore the internet.

 

[skieur]

If you have to explain the photo, it has already failed.

Yes and no - a photo has to stand on its own merits - however I feel that with a photo alone one can tell many possible stories - sometimes a photographers needs to add more than the photo can say - or more correctly to help guide the viewer to understand what they are seeing within the photo itself.

If the photographer needs to add more than the photo can say or guide the viewer using your words, then, his composition and photographic technique have NOT achieved his objectives and it is a weak photo.

skieur

 

[Overread]

If you have to explain the photo, it has already failed.

Yes and no - a photo has to stand on its own merits - however I feel that with a photo alone one can tell many possible stories - sometimes a photographers needs to add more than the photo can say - or more correctly to help guide the viewer to understand what they are seeing within the photo itself.

If the photographer needs to add more than the photo can say or guide the viewer using your words, then, his composition and photographic technique have NOT achieved his objectives and it is a weak photo.

skieur

I disagree, but as I said above I'm not just taking photography as the production of art alone - photography includes many forms from technical (dull tedious stuff that "artists would never touch ) though to the totally abstract. Sometimes those technical photos will need annotations - sometimes a journalist will have to tell you what you are looking at to understand what is shown.

 

[skieur]

Photography is not really an opinionistic art form but there are a lot of variables involved in giving and assessing critique.

1. A few newbies have a talent for recognizing good or poor composition (perhaps some artistic talent) and/or a technical eye to recognize excellence in camera technique.

2. Some photographers have seen very few quality photos, while others have seen
thousands including some of the very highest quality and creativity.

3. Some experienced photographers recognize mistakes even apparently minor ones,
because they have made them several times during their careers.

Look at the photos of the person giving critique in his/her gallery. Do they look "professional" as opposed to looking like quickly shot, casual snapshots with little attention to technical excellence or composition?

Consider the wording of the critique. "I like it.", "Great shot". etc. should tell you that that the person posting this has very limited photographic experience. Take their praise with a grain of salt.

If, on the other hand, the person giving critique refers to technical aspects, composition, and uses photographic terms, then his/her critique should be taken more seriously, because there seems to be more experience behind the comments.

Irrespective of the intention of the photographer, it is always interesting through critique to see what draws or does not draw the attention of the viewer. It takes a lot of photographic experience to assess critiques of your own photos. I suspect that there are fewer photographers who recognize when the praise is unwarranted and the criticism is valid and accurate, but that can easily be the case.

skieur

 

[The_Traveler]

If the photographer needs to add more than the photo can say or guide the viewer using your words, then, his composition and photographic technique have NOT achieved his objectives and it is a weak photo.

skieur

Garbled syntax aside, no one can state what every photographer's objective should be.

I am not in favor of explanatory text that stands in the stead of a well conceived photo but sometimes a word, a title, a single line can add a certain useful extra note to the context and appreciation of a picture.

 

[mishele]

^^^^^^^^^^That is all I want.....lol