Printing to fit the frame or fitting the frame to the photo

[CdTSnap]

So I got some A2 prints done, my god. SO hard to find a frame around here to fit it. I can get bigger and smaller but nothing like that. Also it seems most frames are of a different format to our DSLR aspect ratios.

On a side question also, do most of you export your print files in 300dpi 100% JPG's regardless of the size you will be printing?

 

[tirediron]

That's why the custom framing industry exists; it's not cheap, but if you're going to print in "non-standard" sizes, then it's your only option. That said, I always prefer to print for the image rather than the frame (there are times when it's necessary, but not often). If I'm printing at home then I'll print from the full-resolution .tif files; when I'm sending to the lab, yes, full resolution .jpg files, at least 300 ppi whenever possible.

 

[KmH]

do most of you export your print files in 300dpi 100% JPG's regardless of the size you will be printing?

No because digital photos don't have any dpi. They have ppi.
We also have to consider what type of print (C=prit or inkjet) is being made, what paper is being used, and the resolution of the printing device (whose resolution IS in dpi).

300 ppi was used as a standard to replicate prints made from film back at the beginning of digital when digital cameras had 2 - 4 MP.

Print resolution is indeed dependent on print size, because print size determines viewing distance.
As viewing distance increases with larger print size the needed print resolution decreases.
Other factors are how the image was prepared for print, image content, and image quality.

For instance, most images destined for print can be sharpened a bit more than images destined for electronic display, though again image content (edge frequency in the image) and image quality play a part in how much and what kind(s) of sharpening van be applied to the image.
Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom (2nd Edition)

Indeed, most online print labs stake their reputations on having minimum print resolution limits in the 90 to 100 ppi range.
Humans cannot perceive any improvement in print resolution above 340 - 360 ppi.

Note that image resolution and print resolution determine print size, but for electronic display image resolution and the electronic display application determines the size a digital photo is displayed.

The Digital Print: Preparing Images in Lightroom and Photoshop for Printing

Fine Art Printing for Photographers: Exhibition Quality Prints with Inkjet Printers

I crop my photos for content and order custom framing/mat/mount parts to frame them. I then do the mount, mat, and frame assembly myself.

 

[CdTSnap]

Thanks Keith, so if I was printing again in A1 size for example with my 24.1mp D7100 how would you export the image?

Going to go back today and get one printed.

 

[Scatterbrained]

Don't forget you can get a larger frame and matte the image.

 

[Derrel]

Most Americans are utterly clueless about sizes like A2, A4...we use inches x inches...the letter and number size never was adopted here in the US of A.

360ppi works great. Some of the professional Nikon bodies allow 4:5 aspect ratio composing in-camera, which greatly simplifies shooting properly and processing properly for perfect 4x5 and 8x10 and 16x20 prints, which are very common American sizes. As you can see, mPIX.com has THIRTY different sizes, allllllll specified as inches x inches....not a letter & number sizing guideline in sight...

The 4:3 aspect ratio cameras allow direct print sizes that are very much different from the 3:2 aspects that Canons and Nikons capture in at native aspect ratio.

Pricing : Mpix

 

[enzodm]

Most Americans are utterly clueless about sizes like A2, A4...we use inches x inches...the letter and number size never was adopted here in the US of A.

while on the general principle I disagree (in particular on inches... this is an international forum, so better to stick on International System, sooner or later you will come too ), in particular I should agree in the sense that ISO216 (A2,A3), etc are not used normally for pictures even in the rest of the world - it's paper size for typographical use (like your Letter standard). I suspect the printer is aimed at that more than pictures.

Compose your picture as it needs and cut excess paper: you will always have to, because Ax family is never 3:2 -one more reason for not finding the right frame...

Regarding resolution, maybe I'm naive but with those sizes you do not have much choice: A1 is about 84x60 cm (about 33x23 inches), if you stick at 300dpi, you will print at max at 20x13.3 inches. However, large pictures are better seen at some distance...

 

[WayneF]

On a side question also, do most of you export your print files in 300dpi 100% JPG's regardless of the size you will be printing?

This is an extremly common misunderstanding, but "regardless of size printed" has no meaning, since dpi is NOT a property of the image.
dpi is a property describing printed size dimension on paper. dpi is ONLY about printing a certain size on paper.

Digital images are dimensioned in pixels, for example 6000 x 4000 pixels (which is 24 megapixels). Pixels is all there is, we must consider the pixels.

Dpi only specifies how those pixels will be spaced on paper (printing resolution)... Example, any image dimension of 3000 pixels, if printed to fill 10 inches of paper, can only be printed at 3000/10 = 300 dpi. If we want it to cover 15 inches of paper, it must be printed at 3000/15 = 200 dpi. If you print on 15 inch paper at 300 dpi, the image will only cover 3000/300 = 10 inches of paper (300 pixels per inch spacing).
Dpi is NOT about the resolution of camera images, which can have no idea what size it may be printed. We scale dpi when ready to print it on paper. All of the inches are only on the paper.

When we print on our own printer, by simply specifying "print", the driver will space the pixels at the dpi number, which will determine printed size on paper - which is the ONLY time the dpi is ever used. On a monitor screen or web page, the dpi number is simply ignored (there are no inches on video screens).

When we send pixels to a print service and specify to print it 8x10 inches, they will scale it (determine dpi) by dividing pixel dimensions by the 8x10 inches.
The dpi number in the JPG file is 100% ignored... they will print it 8x10 inches regardless, if so specified. But we do need to check the number first, to know if this will be acceptable or not (to know if we provided enough pixels or not).

Metric paper sizes (not dimensioned in inches) surely makes this harder to comprehend. Conversion is 25.4 mm per inch, so 300 dpi is 11.81 pixels per mm.
A2 paper size is 420 × 594 mm, or 16.54 × 23.39 inches,
which if to be printed at 300 dpi, would require an image size of (16.54 x 300) x (23.39 x 300) = 4962 x 7017 pixels.
Or (420 x 11.81) x (594 x 11.81) = 4960x7015 pixels image size (same thing).

So the only idea is to prepare your image to be this desired size in pixels, for this printing goal. It need not be exact, pixel dimensions of plus or minus 20% is close enough in practice (300 dpi, +/- 20%)

Image Resize - Cropping, Resampling, Scaling

 

[KmH]

It takes several dots to print a single pixel. dpi = dots per inch. Note: dots are round. pixels are square or rectangular.

While digital photographs use the additive RGB color model, printing devices use the subtractive CMYK color model.
RGB color model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CMYK color model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the printing device only has 4 colors (like most consumer grade inkjet printers) - cyan, magenta, yellow, and black - it takes a minimum of 4 dots to print a single pixel.
High quality inkjet printers have 12 or more colors and the print heads in those machines usually have print heads that deliver well over 100 dots of ink per head.

To print a red pixel an inkjet printer would squirt out yellow dots and magenta dots. Green requires yellow dots and cyan dots. Blue requires magenta and cyan dots.
The more colors the inkjet printer can use the more subtle the shades of color the printer can render by changing the proportions of each of the colors used to render a pixel.

In inkjet printers dpi defines the resolution of the print heads and the output of a typical inkjet printer can range from 360 to 2880 dpi. Better inkjet printers allow different settings for the print head resolution (dpi) even though the printer will be printing the same number of pixels per inch. As the dpi setting is increased the print output becomes smoother and the colors more continuous.

While a correlation can be made between the pixel size of an image and the print head resolution (dpi) setting for the printer, it is important to realize that the ppi is not the same as the dpi created by the printer.

Stated another way and assuming the image ppi remains the same, a setting of 360 dpi would be used for quick, low quality printing while 2880 dpi is used for higher quality print output of the same image.

 

[WayneF]

It takes several dots to print a single pixel. dpi = dots per inch.

No, you are instead speaking of printing quality (not image resolution), which is ink drops per inch - about how well the printer can simulate that pixel color. However many printers hide that today, with quality settings of Good, Better, Best (instead of ink drops per inch).

It is a confusion factor, but the dpi number in image files (which is being discussed) IS EXACTLY pixels per inch.

Some may prefer to say ppi, but the name was always dpi. See the formal technical specifications at the very heart of our digital imaging definitions, which say dpi:

• JPEG file specifications See page 2 and 5, dpi, "dots per inch", meaning pixels.
• TIFF file specifications See page 38, "dots per inch", meaning pixels.
• EXIF 2.2 specifications See pages 19, 90, 101, 104, 108, 112, "dpi", meaning pixels (the number 72 dpi there has no significance, it just means "blank, no information").

There is no mention in these specs about printer ink drops per inch. You are speaking of ink jets. Some printers (continuous tone) mix the pixel color into one mixed drop. Not all printers even use ink drops (the better chemical photo printers today).

 

[Derrel]

It takes several dots to print a single pixel. dpi = dots per inch.

No, you are instead speaking of printing quality (not image resolution), which is ink drops per inch - about how well the printer can simulate that pixel color. However many printers hide that today, with quality settings of Good, Better, Best (instead of ink drops per inch).

It is a confusion factor, but the dpi number in image files (which is being discussed) IS EXACTLY pixels per inch.

Some may prefer to say ppi, but the name was always dpi. See the formal technical specifications at the very heart of our digital imaging definitions, which say dpi:

• JPEG file specifications See page 2 and 5, dpi, "dots per inch", meaning pixels.
• TIFF file specifications See page 38, "dots per inch", meaning pixels.
• EXIF 2.2 specifications See pages 19, 90, 101, 104, 108, 112, "dpi", meaning pixels (the number 72 dpi there has no significance, it just means "blank, no information").

There is no mention in these specs about printer ink drops per inch. You are speaking of ink jets. Some printers (continuous tone) mix the pixel color into one mixed drop. Not all printers even use ink drops (the better chemical photo printers today).

Having read the specifications, it does seem that DPI is actually the correct term....not necessarily PPI, but dee-pee-eye....

 

[WayneF]

Having read the specifications, it does seem that DPI is actually the correct term....not necessarily PPI, but dee-pee-eye....

It might have been jargon, but the name for image resolution simply always was dpi. We never heard ppi before - it was only after digital cameras (and scanners before them, where dpi has even yet another meaning) that we had the huge influx of newbies, who mostly don't bother to learn anything. Since they never understood, somebody got the notion that ppi might be more explanatory. And perhaps it would have been a better name, but unfortunately that is not its name. So now we have to understand use of both terms. And we have do-gooders who like to stand up and shout Wrong about dpi (when they simply don't know its name).

But usage and comprehension is very easy... if the context is about images, it can only mean pixels per inch (there are no ink drops in images, or cameras or scanners). If it is about printer quality settings, it can only mean ink drops per inch. As I mentioned, the confusion problem is diminishing, because many printers now instead call their value Good, Better, Best (printers were the actual confusion). The newbies still have to comprehend pixels to grasp printing resolution, so often, it couldn't matter less what it was called.