Problem with a client about copyright release. help please

[Shadowwolf2008]

So last month I did a photo-shoot. The client got 16 pictures printed out and a cd for $55. I do not include a copyright release forum with my prices. I have everybody sign a contract before the shoot that says exactly what they are getting and that they agree to it. They are demanding me to give them a FREE copyright release forum and stating that my package was false advertisement cause "everybody" else that has a cd in package gives you a copyright release. I feel it would not be fair to let them have one for free when others do not get this. That's like special treatment. To try and make the client happy I offer a copyright release forum for $10. Now they are threating to take me to court if I do not give them a copyright release forum for free or give them their money back. I did the job they wanted. Gave them what was signed in the contract. Delived the photographs in a timly manor. Why should I be required to give them their money back? Also just so everyone knows their is a total of 52 photographs on that cd. Advise Please. First time I ran into a problem.

 

[wyogirl]

Refer to your contract. If it gets to the point of legal action, seek a lawyer. If your contract does not say that they get a release, then I would assume that they can't make too much trouble. But again, seek professional legal advice.

 

[wyogirl]

PS... they got a freakin steal at $55! Just saying.

 

[kathyt]

What in the heck do they want to do with them? I am confused. Are they talking about a print release? Do they have a logo on the files or something?

 

[robbins.photo]

So last month I did a photo-shoot. The client got 16 pictures printed out and a cd for $55. I do not include a copyright release forum with my prices. I have everybody sign a contract before the shoot that says exactly what they are getting and that they agree to it. They are demanding me to give them a FREE copyright release forum and stating that my package was false advertisement cause "everybody" else that has a cd in package gives you a copyright release. I feel it would not be fair to let them have one for free when others do not get this. That's like special treatment. To try and make the client happy I offer a copyright release forum for $10. Now they are threating to take me to court if I do not give them a copyright release forum for free or give them their money back. I did the job they wanted. Gave them what was signed in the contract. Delived the photographs in a timly manor. Why should I be required to give them their money back? Also just so everyone knows their is a total of 52 photographs on that cd. Advise Please. First time I ran into a problem.

Well from the sounds of things legally your in the right here - and if this does go to court because of the value placed on the pictures by the contract it will most likely end up in small claims court, which is good because a lawyer would not be necessary. This sounds like a disagreement based on principle rather than money, but one thing you should consider is, how much is this worth to you?

You mentioned that you provide such a release for an additional $10. Now, the question to ask yourself is this, is it really worth $10 to you to go through all this hassle and risk the possibility of winding up in court, even if it is just small claims? I mean you will end up losing far more than $10 in time and other expenses regardless. So my suggestion would be to apologize to the client for the misunderstanding, tell them that you had thought they had understood that such a release of copyright did have an additional fee involved, but under the circumstances since that wasn't made clear to them you'll be more than happy to give them one for no additional charge. From a business perspective that would be the most expedient and cost effective way of dealing with this based on what you've told me.

However if this is a matter of principle to you and you really feel it is worth the time and hassle to make a stand of some sort, then certainly you should do so - just be aware that it will cost you time and will certainly lead to some pretty bad blood between you and the former client, which in the long run will most likely cost you some business as well. But if you consider the principle involved worth defending then by all means, just be aware from a business perspective it's not going to be a cost effective decision.

My two cents worth at any rate.

 

[Shadowwolf2008]

Yes It is for all that. Mine are cheap since I am just starting up.

 

[Shadowwolf2008]

I also forgot to mention that they did not like one of the prints and wanted a different one Which I offered to do that for free. Now they want this release. If I don't stand up now, what will be next, the whole package redone? I've already decided that I am not going to do any type of business with this person on anything. Will the client really go to court over $10 or are they trying to scare me into giving them what they want is another thing.

 

[Shadowwolf2008]

They want the release so they can print the photographs at like Walmart or where ever. Yes I do have my business name on the bottom corner of the pictures to keep people from being able to make copies at chain stores. However they can still print them at home. My name is also on their for others that see the photograph and like it that they have an idea of who to look for if they would like photos done.

 

[Overread]

Yes It is for all that. Mine are cheap since I am just starting up.

If you market toward a cheaper market then by the time you've built up experience enough to raise your prices to what you want to charge at a good rate you'll find yourself losing that whole market you've built - because you'll be shifting to charging for a product that they no longer can afford (or are willing to pay). As a result you have to go all the way back to the beginning again and rebuild a totally new client base for yourself (whilst dealing with people complaining that you've put your prices up all the time).

In addition the cheap sector for any service is always rife with people who will complain and threaten everything they can to get the most for the least investment. They'll always have a complaint or something extra that they want - tightfisted people and those with very limited disposable income are always going to learn those tricks. As a provider of those services you've got to take a firm line or they will walk all over you - you've got a contract so consider sticking to it. Then again life is about choosing the right fights and sometimes you have to give up and let something slip passed just to get rid of the client rather than making a stance and lumbering yourself with a long period of contention - stress and possible legal fees. (and thus yet even more stress).



If you want you can set your prices high and then do "50% off for the first 20 customers" kinds of deal. You've set your price and its there for all to see, but you can use the discount period to get a little work early on.


Note that in this specific case it sounds like the client is trying to bully you - threatening court action over $10 when the contract was clearly stated and signed by them before the photos were taken clearly shows that they've not a leg to stand on. They are just trying to pressure you into providing something you don't because other providers have done so - you're under no obligation to copy your competition. Yes you'll lose this client; but chances are you don't want them again anyway.



PS my view is that if you give people a CD of photos which are of a suitable size for print (ie they are bigger than web display sizes) then that should come with a printing licence for them. Otherwise you're just kidding yourself because your tiny watermark will be cropped off or ignored and they'll print them at home or at the shops and be quite happy.
Charge a rate for prints - then have a totally separate setup for CD with printing rights (make it a high cost IF you want to make your profit on the prints - make it a lower cost if you've made your profit from the sitting fee and the print/CD is just extra ontop).

 

[robbins.photo]

I also forgot to mention that they did not like one of the prints and wanted a different one Which I offered to do that for free. Now they want this release. If I don't stand up now, what will be next, the whole package redone? I've already decided that I am not going to do any type of business with this person on anything. Will the client really go to court over $10 or are they trying to scare me into giving them what they want is another thing.

Will they really go to court over this - well honestly who knows. Not if they have half a brain, I mean it's 10 bucks for goodness sake. But I've seen people do stuff that was a lot more ridiculous. Are they worth keeping as a client - nope. Like I said, only question you need to ask is do you really want to invest the time and hassle in this if worst case scenario they do decide to take it to court. If the principle is worth that much to you, by all means stick to your guns. Legally you are in the right. From a strictly business perspective this one is a loser, even if you win in court it will cost you more than 10 bucks in lost time and hassle. So you need to decide how important the principle is - that's really my only point.

 

[KmH]

What the client wants is a use license, though in the retail photography business a use license is often called a print release.

If your contract does not include a use license/print release, then the complaining customer has little legal traction for claiming false advertising or for taking you to court to recover some portion of their money.
If the complaining customer were to pursue legal action, because only $55 is involved it would likely be in small claims court. People do not need to have an attorney in small claims court and can avoid that expense.

Just because other photographers include a use license/print release, does not mean all photographers have to include one.

If you do not have a legal registered/licensed business, the complaining client (or a competitor) can cause you a lot of financial difficulty by reporting you to your city and state governments.
In some states, the person doing the reporting gets a % of the fees, fines, and penalties the city and/or state collect from the owner of an illegal business as a reward.
Many cities and stares are strapped for money and get it from where ever they can.

Print Release - Use License

All images © 2013 [name or studio here], All Rights Reserved.
This Use License shall be governed by the laws of the State of _________.

I, [name and/or studio here], as copyright owner of these images, grant a lifetime, personal, non-commercial use license to ____________________ and their immediate family to print, or have printed no larger than (whatever size, if any) reproductions of these images for display in their home and workplace only.

Online Use

[name and/or studio here] has provided web sized and watermarked images for exclusive use on social networking web sites that are not owned by ____________________ and their immediate family. No other online use is granted.
Removal of the watermark from these web sized images, or any other violation of any of the other terms of this Print Release – Use License will constitute a breach of this entire Print Release – Use License, rendering it null and void in its entirety.

Copyright and other Legal Information

Please remember that because these images are protected by US Federal Copyright laws they may not be altered, copied, transmitted or used in any way not stipulated above without prior written consent of the copyright owner, [name and/or studio here].
These images may not be entered in any photography or other competition or contest without the expressed written consent of [name and/or studio here]. Commercial use, or sales of any other type, of the images is prohibited.
No waiver by either party of any of the terms or conditions of this license shall be deemed or construed to be a waiver of such term or condition for the future, or of any subsequent breach thereof. Waivers are only applicable when they are written. There will be no verbal waivers to this agreement.

The Photographer hereby warrants that he (or she) is the sole creator of these images and owns all rights granted by US and International law.

[Name and/or studio here]
Address:
City, State:
Business license/registration #:
Phone:
Email:
Authorized Signature:

 

[Braineack]

they won't take you to court. the court fees themselves will cost them more than they spent on your session.

But I agree with this:

PS my view is that if you give people a CD of photos which are of a suitable size for print (ie they are bigger than web display sizes) then that should come with a printing licence for them. Otherwise you're just kidding yourself because your tiny watermark will be cropped off or ignored and they'll print them at home or at the shops and be quite happy.
Charge a rate for prints - then have a totally separate setup for CD with printing rights (make it a high cost IF you want to make your profit on the prints - make it a lower cost if you've made your profit from the sitting fee and the print/CD is just extra ontop).

and this:

If you do not have a legal registered/licensed business, the complaining client (or a competitor) can cause you a lot of financial difficulty by reporting you to your city and state governments.

 

[manaheim]

I agree with what has been said, but in short...

1. Your prices are ridiculously too low. I mean, $55 is crazy enough, but a copyright release (I assume you mean you're giving them the copyrights and giving them away) should be many times the cost of a single image, for one... so like hundreds of dollars in your case, but really many hundreds or even thousands of dollars for most people.
2. As you price for a release is only $10... seems like it would be less hassle to just give it to them. While I think it's a huge mistake to do it, for $10? Meh.

You NEED to change your pricing structure and work with better clients. "Just starting up" I understand, but you're not going to want to do this long enough to even get into the higher tier market if you have clients threatening to sue you over $10.

 

[kathyt]

If you are just starting up you need to make a positive name for yourself. Make the client happy. If they want a decent print, then give them a decent print.

 

[Shadowwolf2008]

I am going to give her release just drop this whole thing. It's not worth the hassle. But I do have another question since I have totally changed my contract since I dealt with this person. I would like to know what you all think of it and if im "missing" anything.
Agreement and Consent


Date:____________
I understand that I pay _____ up front and the rest when I meet to get
photographs. If I do not have the money I will not Receive my photographs until
I have the money for them. It take's ___ to ____ days to recieve my photographs
after I have choosen my photographs to be printed. If I haven't selected my
photographs in a month from the photo-shoot Renee's Photography will no
longer be required to keep your photographs and have them printed. The money
that I have paid will be nonrefundable. After I recieved my photographs and
everything is paid for in full the money is nonrefundable. If you buy a package
with a cd it does not mean that it automatically comes with a copyright
release form. It does not come with one unless stated in this agreement.


I herby give my consent for Renee's Photography to post my pictures on
their website for sample pictures. If I should need to get a hold of them for any
reason I can message them online or call at (570) 447-0771.


Photographs are to be taken at ___________ on __________. I have
selected the Package for _____ which consists of a
____ minute session
___ 8x10
___ 5x7
___ 4x6
___ wallets
____ cd.
The shooting will take place at _____________ in ________________. If I should decide
that I want more photographs then what is provided in the special it will be
____ for a 8x10 or (8) wallets.
____ for any extra 4x6 or 5x7.


In the event of an emergency with the photographer or client the shoot will be
rescheduled.




I herby agree with everything stated


_____________________________________________