Processing vs Photography Skill

[JBPhotog]

@smoke665 Some are lazy, they typically shoot is auto modes and don’t care about the process. But I mention competency since a large number of people don’t understand the basics, like the exposure triangle, WB, ISO and it’s relationship to DR, when and where to apply shutter speed vs DOF etc., etc. And here’s the rub, many of those same people claim they will only accept SOOC imagery. Anyone can pick up a camera today and fiddle with a few buttons to generate an image but to truly understand the parameters at play that capture it requires deeper understanding of the entire process.

I agree the darkroom was/is a place of post processing, the many thousands of rolls of Kodachrome I shot however were baked into the capture.

 

[smoke665]

@JBPhotog The laziness I was referring to was more on the order of composition, not being aware of surroundings, getting a good exposure, but I agree some of the other likely comes into play. Modern DSLRs are pretty awesome in thier ability to produce a snapshot JPEG SOOC in most shooting situations. Only when you try to move past that snapshot does the knowledge you mention become an essential requirement.

many thousands of rolls of Kodachrome I shot however were baked into the capture.

I primarily shot Tri-X 400, bought it in 100' bulk rolls, over the course of my stint with the papers I went through a lot of film. Back then "rolling you own" was cheap compared to today. As to the exposure being "baked" I was shooting/developing B&W, pushing, pulling, changing developers, etc, were all post processing used to "unbake" that exposure when necessary.

 

[Original katomi]

Smoke you are bringing back some memories here.
Bulk rolls of film.
I used to buy fp4 b&w film @5mtrs a time and roll my own.
A dark room in parents loft, pulling the film from 125 asa to 100
When I went out with the k1000 I used to have a cross body belt that held firm cans got the idea from watching the old westerns. Where the cowboys had belts with extra bullets, decided to make same for 35 mm film cans
Now I just carry loads of batts and sd cards lol

 

[smoke665]

@Original katomi LOL I used the screw top metal canisters, and an old hunting vest designed to hold shotgun shells. Game pouch in the back was handy storage.

 

[JBPhotog]

@JBPhotog The laziness I was referring to was more on the order of composition, not being aware of surroundings, getting a good exposure, but I agree some of the other likely comes into play. Modern DSLRs are pretty awesome in thier ability to produce a snapshot JPEG SOOC in most shooting situations. Only when you try to move past that snapshot does the knowledge you mention become an essential requirement.

many thousands of rolls of Kodachrome I shot however were baked into the capture.

I primarily shot Tri-X 400, bought it in 100' bulk rolls, over the course of my stint with the papers I went through a lot of film. Back then "rolling you own" was cheap compared to today. As to the exposure being "baked" I was shooting/developing B&W, pushing, pulling, changing developers, etc, were all post processing used to "unbake" that exposure when necessary.

We agree on pretty much all of this, modern cameras do an excellent job of capturing images without user input. That is a deeper discussion from a perspective of working pros today and how technology has eroded the industry.

I did plenty of that too, in fact I had two bulk loaders, one for Plus-X the other for Tri-X. I even did sheet film deep tank developing for a number of years and only sold all that off about 6 years ago.

 

[Braineack]

That is a deeper discussion from a perspective of working pros today and how technology has eroded the industry.

This could be argued in almost any industry today. There's not many barriers for anyone to enter any industry and plenty of resources to master it.

 

[smoke665]

This could be argued in almost any industry today. There's not many barriers for anyone to enter any industry and plenty of resources to master it.

But what if you need better the Okay?

 

[Ysarex]

This could be argued in almost any industry today. There's not many barriers for anyone to enter any industry and plenty of resources to master it.

But what if you need better the Okay?

Joe

 

[Sharpshooterr]

This could be argued in almost any industry today. There's not many barriers for anyone to enter any industry and plenty of resources to master it.

But what if you need better the Okay?

View attachment 184606

Joe

Have you seen the prices of brain surgery lately?? They're higher than a root canal!!
Just get references from his patients! If the patient is still alive, you're good to go!!! LoL
SS

 

[Braineack]

Learn to code.

 

[smoke665]

Learn to code.

I did in college......they still using FORTRAN???

 

[vintagesnaps]

There's quite a jump between doing something (photography, brain surgery, whatever...) and actually getting good at it and mastering it.

I think if someone is going to do a significant amount of editing, such as putting in a different background/sky or removing objects or adding/using special effects, etc., then that needs to be made clear - label it as a composite, or photo illustration, or something. Otherwise it seems like being less than honest about what was done if what was photographed wasn't what was actually there.

I don't think skill is less important. Using a particular technique itself doesn't make art, it's a matter of how it's used. It's still necessary to develop skills in framing and composing images, and adjusting vantage points and perspective, and taking backgrounds and subject placement into consideration, etc. It's still necessary to learn how to get proper exposures. If those things aren't done then there could be a good idea without good implementation or a good end result in a photograph.

 

[smoke665]

Otherwise it seems like being less than honest about what was done if what was photographed wasn't what was actually there.

Not that I'm disagreeing as much as questioning your limits. So would you consider replacing child #3's head in the family photo with one from another shot where he's actually smiling and not shoving his finger up his nose to the first joint as being dishonest??? What about smoothing and correcting the blemish marked skin of your subject? What about shaving a couple pound off the midriff or thighs of the otherwise attractive young lady in your photo, or shrinking a turkey neck on your matronly subject? How about smoothing a few of the wrinkles around the eyes, or whitening the teeth on a heavy smoker? While most of these are directed toward portrait, you could say the same about other subjects as well. IMO once you start down the path of "labeling" an image as a composite because it may not be an exact replica of the actual scene, just about every image out there would be composites, where do you draw the line between?

 

[JBPhotog]

I think if someone is going to do a significant amount of editing, such as putting in a different background/sky or removing objects or adding/using special effects, etc., then that needs to be made clear - label it as a composite, or photo illustration, or something. Otherwise it seems like being less than honest about what was done if what was photographed wasn't what was actually there.

I find this kind of argument somewhat curious since we don't require landscape painters to only use the actual colours of the original scene. I guess if you are only attempting to 'document' the scene rather than add an artistic impression then okay but be aware there are many restrictions to this approach.

It really depends on the discipline as well, photojournalists are required by the ethics they aspire to, to not alter the image. There have been a few instances of late where PJ's have gotten into trouble by doing too much editing. However, the genre's of advertising, artistic expression, portraiture etc. do not ascribe to these limitations and are free to create the imagery that suits their purpose.

 

[Derrel]

There are quite a few working professionals today who have fairly weak technical understanding of the old time fundamentals of photography, but they can do their job because they shoot everything in color positive on a new digital camera with Incredible dynamic range and super wide exposure adjustment capability as long as they have an ISO invariant sensor.

Photography has never been easier to do. No need to develop film, no real need to learn dozens of technical issues. If you make a mistake you can see it within seconds now.