Questions for those who shoot shows (especially with D700)

[invisible]

My brother has invited me to attend one of his band's shows and – while I'm at it – photograph the event.

I've never photographed shows before. In fact, I rarely ever photograph moving subjects. So... I'm not sure what slowest shutter speed I should use, assuming I'm shooting with a normal lens (not a wide angle or a telephoto).

Question specific for D700 owners: Although I've had the D700 for a year, I've never shot in these light conditions (see video below, made at a different venue). Looks like the lighting will be even during the whole show, but dim. What maximum ISO should I use (without having to reduce noise in post)?



Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[gsgary]

There looks like there is hardly any light so you are looking at ISO3200 minimum if you have an F1.4 lens if you don't have fast lenses forget it

 

[NielsSw]

Is it allowed to use flash? I'm no show shooter either and I don't like flash but that video looks really dark and they are moving all the time :shock:

 

[osirus]

can you use flash, ? that will help iso and shutterspeed alot.

3200 and lower is fine, 6400 you will prob have to remove some noise in PP

as for shutterspeed, well 60 at the very least, but you will prob want at least 100 or 200 or there guitar hand ecy will be blurry, but it also depends how much the band is moving.

i shot our lady peace and the trews and got away with using a slow sigma f 4-5.6 zoom at iso 3200 because the lighting was good
then i shot down with webster at a smaller venue and i had a pretty hard time freezing then as they were constantly moving/ jumping ect and the lighting wasnt the best

 

[dpolston]

I think I LOST my first reply! DANGIT!

I shoot concerts for 90% of my photography work. I don't want this to come across as arrogant but this next month I am contracted to shoot Lil' Wayne, Elton John, James Taylor, Brian Regan and a few other shows including a Rodeo and Freestyle Motorcross and I have a full time job. I'm telling you this because I started shooting concerts fairly recently on this level and no one gives up their 'secrets' easily. One on one, they're your 'competition'. I had to learn for myself and I want to share my setup. This might not work for you but you might have a better idea of what to expect.

I use old school, beat up Nikon D200's. I shoot a pair of them at all times at concerts. One has a 80-200 2.8 on it the entire time. The other has 3 lenses on it (because most concerts only let you shoot the first 3 songs - some not even that and you're done!). I start with a 27-70 2.8 and switch to a 35 1.8 prime for song 2 and a 10-20 4.5 for the 3rd song (this gives me everything I need). But, shoot what you have!

ISO: I keep mine on auto BECAUSE I don't want the hassle of guessing and second guessing. You usually don't have time for that (unless it's Dave Matthews and you have all the time in the world. Mr. 10 minute jam songs). If you are a 'Manual Only' purest, I'd start around ISO 640. You'll find yourself sitting around the 400 - 800 range. The stage might be dark but the closer shots are typically well lit (with the exception of Rob Zombie which will be low lit RED, GREEN or BLUE with tons of smoke). In that case, turn the camera to B&W! lol

On my events, I use the Shutter Priority mode mainly. I already have the auto ISO taken care of and the aperture will usually default to the highest setting (1.8, 2.8 etc) and your meter will tell you if you're off base on the exposure. I use 1/80 as my goto speed but this depends on your talent [performer]. Guys like Bieber never sit still so I bump up to 1/125 and you have guys like Carlos Santana and Toby Keith that would not run if they were on fire can be shot around 1/60 or 1/80. I also use a 'single focus area setting' on the camera with a spot metering. This way the meter for iso isn't trying to read everything around you. The single focus area works best for me because I focus on the eyes 95% of the time. If you use a 'closest subject or dynamic rang setting' you are likely to get an awesome, crisp, clean shot of the end of the mic stand.

Try these tips and see what happens. I don't think jacking up your ISO to 3200 is what you want to do unless you're shooting the crowd. You will end up with a passible wideshot with your talent blown out beyond reconition. Your 700 is awesome. flip it to "P" once or twice to see what it says but then swith to Shutter Priority and let the camera work fou ya!

 

[dpolston]

I just re-read your post. You will have to bump up the ISO but I still think 3200 is going to be too much. you might get away with 1250 - 1600 range with the D700.

David

 

[gsgary]

If you can't use iso3200 on the D700 send it back, this is iso3200 on a 5Dmk1 and 200mmF2.8L
Paul Carrack (Mike and the Mechanics)

 

[bigtwinky]

I just re-read your post. You will have to bump up the ISO but I still think 3200 is going to be too much. you might get away with 1250 - 1600 range with the D700.

Totally disagree

ISO 1600 on my 7D is nice and fine. I can pull off ISO 3200 if needed. Learning to exposure and work with high ISO is key.
You should be good at ISO 3200 or 6400. I've seen images posted with little to no noise removal. A full frame D700 is way ahead of a crop sensor like a 7D, D300 and so on.

What shutter speed depends on the band and their level of activity. I try and get a min of 1/125th for decently moving people. If the band is all over the place, you'll need 1/250 or more. They are as active as athletes are and move just as fast. You can slow the shutter for some movement on purpose, say the guitarists hands on the guitar being blurry type thing.

I would much rather have a frozen perfect image with some noise than a blurry shot without noise. So work with the ISO, don't be afraid. Its your friend. Black and white can look good with grain/noise.

Quality manufacturer lenses are key. I've shot with a Tamron and third party lenses are typically known for slow focus in lower light... and concerts are a killer.

I would not recommend shooting in AV or in TV. Reason is that they will adjust the exposure constantly. And this could be a personal thing but if I am shooting a show and suddenly a bright spotlight comes on and the singer gets silhouetted or something, I wouldn't want my camera to adjust the exposure and shooting at f/16 1/250th. The essence of the show, the feeling, was a really bright light. Its part of the show that the light designers put so much time in thinking of. So I'd leave my camera in M and shoot...the light will be bright, but hell, it was at the show. I might tweak my settings some, but really, I want to capture the moment. Granted, this is probably more for higher end shows than small bars.

flip it to "P" once or twice to see what it says but then swith to Shutter Priority and let the camera work fou ya!

Instead of going with P and Shutter, I'd suggest going with spot metering and M and seeing what your meter says for the scene you want. Meter off the faces of the artist (or the important part of the scene if no faces). Going with P can work, but then you are not only switching settings, you are also switching modes.

 

[gsgary]

I always use manual for this sort of shoot, but if your not comfortable with manual Aperture priority is better set what DOF you want and it will always give you the fastest shutter speed

 

[dpolston]

The 'P' was for a reference. But you're right it was for the metering reference. I don't shoot on program mode either. =o) I was making the lower ISO argument because I can only squeak out 1600 ISO on my D200. I agree that if its needed to go higher that that, go for it and for wider shots you will.

The following link is from a show I shot last year. The top and bottom shots were taken with an ISO of 800 using a 80-200 2.8 Nikon lens at 1/80th. the middle shot was also 1/80 with a 10-16 4.5 Sigma lens (stuck on 16mm).

Home: "Toby Keith"

 

[kundalini]

I just re-read your post. You will have to bump up the ISO but I still think 3200 is going to be too much. you might get away with 1250 - 1600 range with the D700.

David

Bullspit. Crank tha Mutha up...... she can handle it.

 

[invisible]

I just re-read your post. You will have to bump up the ISO but I still think 3200 is going to be too much. you might get away with 1250 - 1600 range with the D700.

David

Bullspit. Crank tha Mutha up...... she can handle it.

Without noise reduction?

Thanks everybody for your responses so far, all are really helpful. (And special thanks to dpolston for typing it twice.)

 

[osirus]

these are at iso 3200 without any noise removal done.

(only PP was a tiny levels adjustment)

so dont be afraid to bump the d700s iso to 3200 ifyou have too

taken with a D700, sigma 70-300 f 4-5.6 and a nikon 28-80 f3-5.6

 

[gsgary]

The 'P' was for a reference. But you're right it was for the metering reference. I don't shoot on program mode either. =o) I was making the lower ISO argument because I can only squeak out 1600 ISO on my D200. I agree that if its needed to go higher that that, go for it and for wider shots you will.

The following link is from a show I shot last year. The top and bottom shots were taken with an ISO of 800 using a 80-200 2.8 Nikon lens at 1/80th. the middle shot was also 1/80 with a 10-16 4.5 Sigma lens (stuck on 16mm).

Home: "Toby Keith"

Using P will give you a rubbish reference

 

[djacobox372]

The 'P' was for a reference. But you're right it was for the metering reference. I don't shoot on program mode either. =o) I was making the lower ISO argument because I can only squeak out 1600 ISO on my D200. I agree that if its needed to go higher that that, go for it and for wider shots you will.

The following link is from a show I shot last year. The top and bottom shots were taken with an ISO of 800 using a 80-200 2.8 Nikon lens at 1/80th. the middle shot was also 1/80 with a 10-16 4.5 Sigma lens (stuck on 16mm).

Home: "Toby Keith"

ISO 6400 on a D700 is better then ISO 1600 on a D200 (I own both cameras).

I would suggest using iso 3200, but if you're shutter speeds are too slow or your aperture too wide then iso 6400 is still pretty good. If you're converting to black and white later, iso 12800 is even usable.

To prevent hand-shake the shutter speed should be equal to or greater then the focal length, example 1/50th for a 50mm lens 1/200th for 200mm. However I'd try to use 1/250th or faster to prevent motion blur.