Regarding Supposed TPF Bullies and Abuse Towards Newbies

[AgentDrex]

Okay, so no one has been able to show any proof of abuse here at TPF? Just like I thought. We're all good people here as I've known for five years now. Some people have to learn how to take criticism and not to cry wolf with the word abuse.

I'm in all support of bullying in the united states.
This place is so damn weak... someone needs to light a fire under some of these snot nosed wiener kids.

Everyone is a winner....

I agree that there are a lot of younger people that feel privileged and should have everything handed to them on a silver plate. But I don't agree on supporting bullying. Having been bullied all of my childhood for being poor, super skinny, very pale and not a part of any clique, I don't encourage doing that to anyone (even if seemingly they deserve it). I think attitudes really have to change before we all sink. I dealt with the name-calling by taking on the name (it showed the bullies I wasn't bothered by the names and they quit calling me those names. I really was bothered by the names though.) I skipped two years of high school to just stay away from not only students but teachers who bullied the poor in our school. I didn't know where else to turn. Nothing I did seemed like it was right at home either. Never got to spend a night at a friend's house, always getting grounded for trying to stick up for myself (being called a smartass all the time really does a number on a person even later in life) and so moved out when I was sixteen leading to homelessness for the next ten years. It'd be nice to stop and think about what you're about to say before you do so. Even something meant in jest can be taken wrong. People used to punch at me (not to really hit me apparently) when I was younger and then when I'd finally flip, they'd say they were just joking. Really? Nice joke.

 

[cgipson1]

I have not received any abuse. I have seen two or three abusive posts, but it is certainly not widespread.

More often, I have seen a lot of folks that get very defensive with some honest critique, and a few that don't want to learn by honest critique. I even helped one of these find a new "home" where he is likely to get the "ooohs" add "aaahs" and not have to improve his photography.

Ahhhh... we don't want you to feel left out!!! YOU big white fuzzy walrusbreath, you!

 

[AgentDrex]

I have not received any abuse. I have seen two or three abusive posts, but it is certainly not widespread.

More often, I have seen a lot of folks that get very defensive with some honest critique, and a few that don't want to learn by honest critique. I even helped one of these find a new "home" where he is likely to get the "ooohs" add "aaahs" and not have to improve his photography.

Did you report the abusive posts? What posts were they and who were they? Doesn't matter if it's widespread or not. If it's even one and no one stands up against it, it'll be two and then three and so on

 

[cgipson1]

My guess is that you are more likely to find snarky comments related to abstract groups that people can identify with, rather than OPs.

Like, hypothetically, if I saw a post regarding a lady taking a photo of her kid's nachos and other people say "Arg! MWAC!". I might hypothetically have thought "Man, I would totally take a picture of nachos."

Also, I would love some nachos.

Please don't be an MWAC!! I was starting to like you!

 

[12sndsgood]

As far as the internet goes. this place is pretty tame. 9x out of 10 when I see a poster attacked its generally because they got some reviews that they don't like and they try to come up with some reason that they are wrong. then people jump in. but if your going to be snarky, people are going to be snarky back. just the way it goes. People are differnt and view things diffrently, you say responding with "it sucks" is bullying. well if I posted a photo and half a dozen people responded saying "it sucks" im going to likely go, yeah there's chances this photo sucks. Heck half the reason I like this place is because people aren't afraid to tell you what they think, good or bad. if I want to hear a bunch of people tell me how good it is i'll post it on facebook. bullying to me is when you see a person and just pick on them all the time for no real reason other then to be mean. That doesn't happen often here that i'm aware of. Just because someone doesn't word a critique in the way that you want doesn't mean its bullying.

 

[jwbryson1]

I joined this forum in April 2011, which is just a few months shy of 2 years ago. I posted my favorite photograph of my daughter and sat back and waited to be lauded for my genius! I got shredded, and my immediate response to the person was to shred them back with some diatribe about him being abused by his father or some other such nonsense. I distinctly remember Bitter's response to my post: "Another NewB bites the dust." I was crestfallen because I was certain that I was pure genius. The shredder came back to me with "what else can I say besides your photographs suck?" I was not a happy camper.

But, here I am 2 years later, a MUCH better photographer for sticking around and learning something and what do you know, but I have actually made friends with some of the people on this forum. I am very happy that I stuck around. For those of you who join this forum and have thin skin, my message is as follows: Suck it up, read and listed with your ears open, ask questions and post photos. Learn and you will enjoy the forum. But you gotta have thick skin.

'Nuff said.

I agree.. your photos do suck much less than they used to! :greenpbl: (yea.. JOKING!)

Nah, they still pretty much suck.

 

[Derrel]

That's because there's no abuse. Just people who can't take criticism.

If there were really "abusers" the mods do a good enough job banning them. The real thread that needs to be started is "How to take criticism when you already think you're a rockstar photographer"

Applauds.

You know the "singers" who croak out an awful ballad on X-Factor or American Idol Or Who's A Talentless Hack?, and then are totally,totally,totally surprised that the judges tell them they are not good singers??? Well...guess what...there are plenty, and I mean PLENTY of "fuh-tog-ruh-fers" whose friends, and family, and workmates, and Facebook friends have told them, sometimes for YEARS, that "Oh....you take such good pi'tures! You oughhtta be a perfessional,yer so gooooood at pit'ure-takin'!" And when they show up here and are not ass-kissed to a fare-the-well, they talk about "abuse". The grown-ups on the other hand, often get upset, and then miracle of miracles, WORK at their craft, and almost as if by magic (along with study, hard work, and C&C and helpful suggestions from a collective with HUNDREDS of years' worth of experience), they become BETTER shooters!!

"Do'ah!!!!"

 

[runnah]

What the hell is going on in here?

People need to grow a thicker skin, nut up and realize that insults and online forums are like PB&J.

 

[amolitor]

It probably comes and goes, I dunno.

4-5 months ago (? a while ago, anyways) it was pretty abusive here. You can pretend that it was just tough love all you want, and it probably did drive some people to become better photographers, but it was straight up bullying. We still have cliqueish behavior, but that's normal. It might be frustrating to get reamed for doing something "bad" and then see one of the in-crowd get lauded for photos which do the exact same thing, but it's not bullying, it's just cliques being cliques. Any time you get more than 3 people together, they're gonna form cliques. It's not any fun to be left out of a clique, but that's life, and you need to get past it.

I don't monitor every thread all the time, though, so I suppose it's possible that people are still unloading their bad days on noobs now and then.

If it's abusive, report it. If you think it might be abusive, report it. Don't demand justice or anything, it's up to the mods. They might well decide that what you see as abusive is honest critique. But, this is why they get the big bucks, you know, to moderate things. It's the little black triangle with the ! in it, lower left corner of every post.

 

[squirrels]

Please don't be an MWAC!! I was starting to like you!

Oops. Sorry about that. Feel free to pull up my original post and use all caps to tell me nobody wants to see pics of my kids. If you don't nip it in the bud it will only get worse. :mrgreen:

 

[nycphotography]

While I may be chastised for linking to this thread: I am deleting my own account I feel that a discussion is in need.

There have been a couple threads/posts other than that one indicating an abusive and clique-ish nature here at TPF. I've been going through a few of the threads started by newbies and cannot find any real abuse.

This is about the least abusive (yet still useful) forum I've been to in years. Of course, some people don't know how to give constructive criticism.

1) separate objective fact from subjective opinion and learn to speak clearly and identify opinion as opinion.
2) don't just identify shortcomings.... tell HOW TO FIX / overcome them.

If we want to improve the forum, a good start would be pointing these two elements out to critiques that lack them.

 

[snowbear116 47]

Did you report the abuse? What posts were they and who were they? Doesn't matter if it's widespread or not. If it's even one and no one stands up against it, it'll be two and then three and so on

Offhand, one was a derogatory comment made about a certain group; I reported the post. As near as I can tell, they haven't posted anything in a long time. The other (one or two - I can't really remember) were already old threads when I came across them in the "lurking" days before I started posting.

 

[Light Guru]

I have seen just a handful of abusive comments on threads that I happen to participate or follow. Abuse like flip comments about ones religion, race, sexual orientation etc. The app I use for the forum on my iPad makes it supper easy to report abuse (Im not sure how easy it is on the main website). The comments have always been redacted vary quickly when I do report them.

The things I see people getting upset about on the forums are not abuse like I mentioned above but things like they got a critique of their photo they didn't like or they were all gung ho about starting their photo business only to have people tell then what is really involved and what they need to actually do.

I do not know what happened to those who the abuse is reported against. Do they receive any notification or are their comments just redacted without their notification? Does there account get a temporary suspension? Does the forum track repeat offenders, and disable the accounts of those people permanently?

 

[AgentDrex]

Its the same attitudes that drive people to do insane stuff to attack back. People assume that the bullied should "nut up". Or that it really isn't bullying, its just cliques being cliques. Or its just online so who cares, learn to brush it off...or there are people out there who manage that sort of thing so we don't have to...we can just ignore it because someone else will take care of it...bullying is bullying...and if its not happening here than that's awesome...but I see a disturbing trend of laid back attitudes toward the subject..and that definitely does not help anyone get to the bottom of anything

Some may be alright with a simple "it sucks" (adult or not) but saying that isn't bullying is the same as when people were telling me in school that my shirt stinks without helping me do anything about it (you know, like giving me a clean shirt...my parents couldn't afford to buy me new clothes...I was getting them from second-hand stores...and when our pipes would freeze in the winter due to no heat, I'd have to wear what I could...smelly or not...) and I'm sure if we were more of a connected people SOMEONE would have given me a clean shirt instead of picking my skinny body up and putting it on the banister overlooking the library twenty feet down. When they suspended the dude that did that, I was harassed by his clique. When he got back to school..in gym class all six of them came over and started kicking me in the crotch, punching me in the face...pushing me around...the teacher stood there and looked at me from across the room as did all the students...no one helped...because I was the poor kid...and I guess I should have learned to nut up...

 

[sm4him]

I read a LOT of threads on TPF...a LOT...like, seriously, I think I need help. :lmao:
And my personal assessment of the rudeness/bullying is this:
Bullying is very nearly non-existent on this forum. The few times I've read what I would truly describe as bullying or abusive behavior, it has been dealt with very quickly by the mods; one instance I recall, a person who was fairly quickly becoming a pretty well-respected member suddenly became quite rude and abusive toward a particular female (not me) whom he had a disagreement with. He said very inappropriate things, and the next day he was GONE. Banned forever.
I can think of a fewer lesser examples too, but honestly, most of them were posts made by relative newcomers themselves, not by the experienced forum members.

Those like the OP in the thread you are referencing who get all up in arms about abusiveness and bullying seem to me like they are over-reacting in a MAJOR way. Someone said something they didn't like and so that person MUST just be a big, awful bully. I seriously wonder how people like that make it through life if they get that worked up about someone bluntly stating their opinion on an internet forum.

And even those "unhelpful" comments like "what can I say other than your picture stinks" or "My suggestion is delete this photo and find a new hobby" -- those really over-the-top snide comments USUALLY come only AFTER the OP has become highly defensive and snarky themselves because they posted something and got told that they are not the world-class photographer their mommy and friends told them they are. They react and get ugly about it, and then...yeah, we have our share who will snark right back. But it's really more of a "well, if you're not gonna listen to anything we tell you ANY way, then all I can say is you're a terrible photographer."

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed by several others--I am a better photographer because people here have been willing to give honest feedback. I have never once felt bullied (and please don't start now, or I'll go find a corner to cry in... :lmao: ), but I have felt enriched by the talent, the experience, the willingness to help and the "relationships" I've developed here.

Are there sometimes posts that are just snarky, or mean, or rude for no other reason than just to be nasty? Yep. But it is a very, very small percentage of this community--it generally DOES get nipped in the bud pretty quickly, if only by other members telling the OP to ignore the rude post.

Besides--and I don't know, maybe this is just me: I grew up in a family with three older brothers, an older sister, and two more older "sisters" who were actually cousins who lived next door. In essence, I was the youngest of seven kids. This forum, to me, really is just like my family--sarcastic, bluntly honest, sometimes downright rude, they'll laugh at your expense--and they are also always there to help you when you need it, to encourage you as well as instruct. I've actually had a TPF member call me, and then remote in to my computer to teach me about something I was trying to figure out how to do! Okay, sure, shortly after that, all the money in my bank account mysteriously disappeared, but that's another story... :lmao:
I had a TPF member do something so incredibly nice and thoughtful to help me out, that had NOTHING to do with photography, that it actually brings tears to my eyes to think about.
AND--TPF is even BETTER than my family in some ways, because none of you have ever come to visit and eaten the last of my ice cream, or consumed the last of my rum without replacing it...