Return of the Triffids

[Ysarex]

@Ysarex They still have a little margin on the levee, but the problem is that like most of the others, it's old, and never designed to sustain long term pressure. Several boils along it, one just recently in the town.

Being from the Missouri side I can tell you there is still a lot of resentment over them blowing the levee at Bird's Point in 2011, flooding 130,000 acres of taxpaying prime farmland to save Cairo, a town that died years ago.

They don't do it to save Cairo -- that's the excuse they use and feed to the public and press. They do it to take pressure off Old River Control and they don't like to talk about Old River so they just say it's to save Cairo. The New Madrid Floodway will pull 1/5 of the flow until it fills up. They can hold the water there as long as needed and the goal just like the goal of the Morganza floodway is to drop the pressure at Old River.

Joe

I heard some chatter about that but Birds Point was designed as a spillway that would have let excess water overflow, relieving pressure downstream. They blew it because it wasn't relieving pressure upstream (Cairo)

Old River is downstream from the New Madrid Floodway -- it's in Mississippi just above the Louisiana state line. When they open the New Madrid Floodway they want to prevent that water from coming down river all at once -- they can divert a huge volume of water into the floodway and hold it there for later controlled release. Screw Cairo, they can't lose Old River. The three spillways on the lower river were all designed as part of a whole that includes management at Old River Control and making sure that Old River is not threatened.

If the Mississippi breaks through at Old River it'll cut a new channel (old channel) down the Atchafalaya in a few hours and just like turning off a hose it'll cut the only source of fresh water to everyone in the Mississippi valley from St. Francisville on down -- millions of people. The bottom of the Mississippi at Baton Rouge is below sea level. The Mississippi will fill up with salt water in a matter of days. That's why they pop the Bird Point levee.

Joe

 

[Jeff15]

The flower looks OK to me.......................

 

[smoke665]

The three spillways on the lower river were all designed as part of a whole that includes management at Old River Control and making sure that Old River is not threatened.

I know what Old River is, Bonnet Carré Spillway dumps excess flood water into Lake Ponchatrain, the lake's opening to the gulf is sufficient to absorb and dissipate any conceivable volume of flood flow. It's actually been opened 14 times since 1937. In the event the flow isn't sufficient then Morganz Spillway is supposed to pick up the slack. The design of the plan was to control flooding all the way up to Cape Girardeau. However, in 2011 Bonnet Carré Spillway was in excess of 90% before they started opening the Morganza, and I don't think it ever was opened much past 20% capacity. Morganza has only been opened twice in it's history, once in 1973 and then in 2011, but part of the controversy was they never exceeded much over 20% capacity.

The design of the Bird's Point and the New Madrid Floodplain was to be a fuse plug to reduce flooding at and above Cairo, Illinois, and along the east bank levee opposite the flood way during a major flood. Birds Point-New Madrid Floodway - Wikipedia It has been a sore subject with the Missouri Delta since it's inception and has resulted in many lawsuits. When they raised the fuse plug to 60.5 feet, it put additional pressure on Cairo, which I believe is about 60 feet. So in 2011 blowing Bird's Point may have relieved the pressure slightly downstream, but it's unlikely considering the capacity still remaining in Old River. Had they not blown Bird's Point, it's highly likely that a breach would have eventually occurred at Cairo, and the excess pressure would have been relieved downstream anyhow, but they don't know because they never let it get to the danger point. So what they did was destroy 130,000 acres of highly productive taxpaying property to save less productive, land in and around Cairo.

 

[Ysarex]

The three spillways on the lower river were all designed as part of a whole that includes management at Old River Control and making sure that Old River is not threatened.

I know what Old River is, Bonnet Carré Spillway dumps excess flood water into Lake Ponchatrain, the lake's opening to the gulf is sufficient to absorb and dissipate any conceivable volume of flood flow. It's actually been opened 14 times since 1937. In the event the flow isn't sufficient then Morganz Spillway is supposed to pick up the slack. The design of the plan was to control flooding all the way up to Cape Girardeau. However, in 2011 Bonnet Carré Spillway was in excess of 90% before they started opening the Morganza, and I don't think it ever was opened much past 20% capacity. Morganza has only been opened twice in it's history, once in 1973 and then in 2011, but part of the controversy was they never exceeded much over 20% capacity.

The design of the Bird's Point and the New Madrid Floodplain was to be a fuse plug to reduce flooding at and above Cairo, Illinois, and along the east bank levee opposite the flood way during a major flood. Birds Point-New Madrid Floodway - Wikipedia It has been a sore subject with the Missouri Delta since it's inception and has resulted in many lawsuits. When they raised the fuse plug to 60.5 feet, it put additional pressure on Cairo, which I believe is about 60 feet. So in 2011 blowing Bird's Point may have relieved the pressure slightly downstream, but it's unlikely considering the capacity still remaining in Old River. Had they not blown Bird's Point, it's highly likely that a breach would have eventually occurred at Cairo, and the excess pressure would have been relieved downstream anyhow, but they don't know because they never let it get to the danger point. So what they did was destroy 130,000 acres of highly productive taxpaying property to save less productive, land in and around Cairo.

I'm not convinced including by the Wiki article. I got a different story from the Corp engineer in charge down at Old River -- we had a long chat about it. Regardless when they open any one of the three spillways considerable damage is done.

Joe

 

[K9Kirk]

A Triffid ate my baby! Then a Dingo came along!

 

[smoke665]

Regardless when they open any one of the three spillways considerable damage is done.

Since Bonnet Carré Spillway dumps excess flood water into Lake Ponchatrain and Monganza dumps into the Atchafalaya River, Atchafalaya Basin, and the Atchafalaya Swamp, I'd dispute any real damage. One of the interesting things going on is the river channel is being forced to take the path it is. It's not the path of choice because of elevation. Given a choice it would likely follow the Atchafalaya River channel as it's a good 18 feet below the current channel exit at the Gulf. Part of the issue now also is that years of water have carried silt down the river, gradually depositing it in the channel making that elevation difference even greater. For now they seem to be sticking their head in the sand ignoring the problem, but at some point it's going catch up.

 

[Derrel]

So far away from me, all this Missouri and Mississippi river talk goes right over my head

 

[Ysarex]

So far away from me, all this Missouri and Mississippi river talk goes right over my head

Sorry about that -- hijacking my own thread I'll let it go now, but in case you're ever inclined start here: https://www.amazon.com/Control-Natu...t=&hvlocphy=9022859&hvtargid=pla-488464963131

Joe

 

[stapo49]

A Triffid ate my baby! Then a Dingo came along!

Meryl Streeps shocking Australian accent. Cringeworthy! We are finally getting some rain after the driest start to winter since 1964.

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