Rule concerning social networking links

[Nikmal]

but if you don't want censorship, please, go hang out at 4chan. this whole thing would fit in nicely there.

You're the one who started the thread...

Surely you weren't under the assumption that it wasn't eventually going to devolve into something...

Just because it can does not mean it should.

 

[unpopular]

personally, i think certain members here are just trying to grasp at straws to defend their poor intentions in this circumstance. This is why the discussion has diverged into this.

I doubt anyone here cares about some random and exceedingly poor photographer enough to offer a genuine critique intended to teach. I still maintain that the sole purpose of comments made were to humiliate and bully. I wish you people would just admit that you were getting a kick out of making someone feel bad.

Because come on, we all do it.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

 

[unpopular]

^^ typography fail.

 

[runnah]

I am of the opinion that if you are just messing around with photos for fun, no big deal. When you start charging people money and touting yourself as professional, game on.

should we be out there tracking these people down? No, probably not.

Let me ask a devil's advocate question here. If I were to say charge a person for a photograph that they happen to like, and I took on a mischance that just came together and made for a good photo. That makes me a professional now?

To me a professional is a matter of... I am getting paid to do weddings and or portraits or even doing it for art display and galleries. If I call myself professional and am selling photo's on a regular basis and am able to support myself for the most part using my photography does it make me a professional. Until then I am only a semi-pro to an advanced novice.

If someone comes on here and comments that someone on Facebook is touting pictures that are terrible, that does not give us the right to go there and then bash them in the guise of giving advice whether good or not, when it is vindictive, is still a form of cyber bullying.

I came here because you all seemed to be a good bunch of people that meant well. When I saw that thread I have thought better then posting any picture here now or in the future based on just what was said in that thread. Just because the person supposedly sold some pictures does NOT make them a pro or even if they want to protect their pictures with a watermark with such and such photography, does not make them a professional. I am sorry but even IF they are a professional by all definitions. It still does not give us the right to go to their facebook page and bash them. This is a photography site. No one person is better then anyone else on here. As it is ALL subjective. If this site wants to promote such behavior I would leave in a heart beat and find somewhere else to go and am damn close to doing so already.
It is not okay to go and bash someone just because as an individual people think that they are not good at taking pictures. They are putting themselves out there and trying. If they come here and ask for advice, give it to them.. but that does not mean that said advice has to be vindictive or mean either. It should be given with constructive criticism and grace.. not political correctness as it should be the the truth.

Keep in mind too that words typed do not convey emotion very well either on here or anywhere. It is up to us to make sure that the right context is coming across in the words we type. I tend to use emoticons alot to convey said emotion, that is me.

When you say "game-on" when it comes to someone that supposedly sells a photo once in a while and think it is ok to say what ever to them... that too is cyber bullying and bad form. This is not a game nor is it a contest. Just because someone does something that you do not agree makes for a professional quality... does not mean that you should call them on it and say it is crap to you and that they should improve or else type of thing. If you do that.. then you are the problem with why people should not come here.

I think I was pretty clear. As soon as you start charging other people for your goods or services you are putting yourself into a realm that has very high standards.

People are trusting you to preserve one of their life's most important moments. If you can't do it compentently then say no. It's not hard and it will save yourself lots of trouble.

I am by no means a professional photographer skill-wise or business-wise. Therefore if I was approached by someone to do a wedding I would say no, because I know I wouldn't do a job that they or I would be happy with.

Being a professional is more than knowing how to take a good photo, its about carrying yourself in a professional manner. Key among that is knowing your limits.

 

[pixmedic]

anyone that doesn't want their FB posts or images being seen by everyone can simply change their privacy settings. only friends can view my posts. aside from that...i don't post ANYTHING on FB that i want kept any sort of a secret.
lets see....post something on the worlds largest social media site, with already questionable privacy settings and practices....and presume it is private. Thats like posting a picture here, and assuming that noone outside of TPF will see it. now, im not validating the bashing of anyones FB page, FB photography "business", or anything else...im just saying, when you throw it out there online, and public, the chances are there for anyone and everyone to see it. and to possibly act on it.

I will agree that just because you charge money, it doesn't necessarily make you a "professional". and lord knows TPF has already been through THAT discussion plenty...but, what it DOES make you, is legally responsible for paying taxes on that income. even if you dont charge a lot of money because of experience. It also can make you liable for injuries if your "paying client" trips over your camera bag or tripod. the argument of "im not charging a lot, so its OK", is not really valid.

Why is it seemingly acceptable to promote a "business" on FB (or wherever) and charge for services...but somehow it is "taboo" to call someone out for illegal business practices? and yes...buyer beware, yada yada yada...so i wont bring up mentioning not having proper equipment, or even knowing how to use the equipment they have. so if the popular motto here is "buyer beware" in regards to those photographers, then if they post on a public forum...it is "Poster Beware".

 

[unpopular]

People are trusting you to preserve one of their life's most important moments. If you can't do it compentently then say no. It's not hard and it will save yourself lots of trouble.

I agree with this 100%, but what difference does it make to me if some 19 year old girl in Oklahoma is charging her drinking buddies to take some snapshots? What makes me feel so obligated to go onto her facebook page and point out all her mistakes?

This reminds me of a time when there was this woman taking photos of a model in the shade with only the built-in flash. I muttered to my wife about how she should be using a reflector. I must have muttered louder than I thought, she looked at me all embarrassed. I felt like a total prick, and I realized I was grumbling for my own benefit, to show off to my wife how much of an awesome photographer I am.

Granted, the next time I saw her she was setting up a reflector - but was it really worth embarrassing her in front of her client? I'm sure she'd have eventually figure it out without my selfish humiliation.

 

[Nikmal]

So if someone buys some photos from me, that makes me a professional and I "put" myself out there as you put it?
If you read my post, you would see I do say professional to semi-pro.

You do not BECOME a professional anything over night. You have to practice and keep doing so to "become" professional at anything. I personally offered to do weddings as a favor and or wedding gifts. Rather then have cousin so and so do it for them. Does that make me a professional? It is all a matter of perspective what is considered a professional to one person is not a professional to another.

 

[pixmedic]

People are trusting you to preserve one of their life's most important moments. If you can't do it compentently then say no. It's not hard and it will save yourself lots of trouble.

I agree with this 100%, but what difference does it make to me if some 19 year old girl in Oklahoma is charging her drinking buddies to take some snapshots? What makes me feel so obligated to go onto her facebook page and point out all her mistakes?

This reminds me of a time when there was this woman taking photos of a model in the shade with only the built-in flash. I muttered to my wife about how she should be using a reflector. I must have muttered louder than I thought, she looked at me all embarrassed. I felt like a total prick, and I realized I was grumbling for my own benefit, to show off to my wife how much of an awesome photographer I am.

Granted, the next time I saw her she was setting up a reflector - but was it really worth embarrassing her in front of her client? I'm sure she'd have eventually figure it out without my selfish humiliation.

by the same token...would you have felt like a dick if you had the chance to catch the photographer away from the client, and you politely explained how they could have improved? Charlie gave some great advice on "someones" facebook page, and it was very tastefully and what I thought was respectfully done. his efforts were met with hostility and threats. I think things really depend on your intentions. if you were to give that photographer advice with the intention of helping her, than I see no problem with it. if your intention was to feel superior, or to put her down...then obviously that's kinda crappy. and that is precisely the battle we face here on this forum. we have too much of the latter here, and not enough of the former. the burden lies on the person GETTING the critique, to either assimilate the suggestions and improve, or to get mad, and learn nothing. this is of course, that the critique given was actually useful, and not just hateful remarks.

 

[runnah]

So if someone buys some photos from me, that makes me a professional and I "put" myself out there as you put it?
If you read my post, you would see I do say professional to semi-pro.

You do not BECOME a professional anything over night. You have to practice and keep doing so to "become" professional at anything. I personally offered to do weddings as a favor and or wedding gifts. Rather then have cousin so and so do it for them. Does that make me a professional? It is all a matter of perspective what is considered a professional to one person is not a professional to another.

You are missing the point. If you happen to take a nice photo and someone buys it from you is worlds apart from being hired to take photos at a special event.

Understand? No?

Another analogy!

If I know a thing or two about fixing a toilet and my buddy calls me up to help him with his crapper and he offers a six pack for my efforts, does that make me a professional plumber? No. But if I put my name in the yellow pages as "runnah the plungah" Plumber for hire, people will expect a certain level of service for the money.

Get it?

 

[cgipson1]

really? if you dont want "bashings" as part of the social structure of this site, you might as well do away with C&C all together.

Most people don't even know what a critique is.

Call me an elitist, but I'd love to see a rule in place that says you must have at least attended an upper division art class before you can critique. I'll be the first to hand over my transcript.

As much as I'm a postmodernist, this whole democratization of art has been a disaster!

That is pretty much elitist!

 

[cgipson1]

Charlie did post on her FB page, but actually gave honest, sincere, and pretty polite C&C, AND linked a great book. told her how to fix issues with several of her pictures. and what did he get for his trouble on a FB page that STATES she wants public opinion? Bitched at by the photog, and physically threatened by her brother. no good deed goes unpunished.

Really? I must have missed that... lol!

 

[unpopular]

^^^ lol. I have to admit. that threat was AWESOME. he even left his phone number!

 

[pixmedic]

^^^ lol. I have to admit. that threat was AWESOME. he even left his phone number!

yea it was! nothing like a threat over the internet to really make someone feel scared.

 

[unpopular]

.. really though, I don't think "she" was so bad given the circumstances. She was understandably defensive and maybe a little embarrassed, but she wasn't all that bad at all. Everyone around her, including the OP who revealed her FB page, OTOH kind of escalated everything to a bar fight.