Seek a Lawyer: Yes or No?

[skieur]

Telling a photographer to seek a lawyer is at best very limited advice and at worst, financially poor advice. It is also great for passing the buck and sounding intelligent...as in ask a knowledgeable expert.

In the area of full disclosure, I should admit that my last bill from a lawyer within the past year was for $500,000. No complaints, by the way, I got what I paid for and won the case.

Nevertheless, the bottom line is that every photographer should know the law and not every photographer can afford to seek a lawyer whenever questions come up. That is WHY posters ask questions about the law in web sites such as this.

What posters want is sufficient information about the law to know whether it is worth their while to consult a lawyer or not and they want this info. from photographers who may have been in similar circumstances or had the same type of issues to deal with. That SHOULD BE understandable to all here, but unfortunately that is not the case.

It is very easy for some to say find a lawyer. I successfully won an argument in person (not on the net) with a famous copyright lawyer in a public forum. My point is do you know the expertise of the lawyer you are talking to and the quality of his advice, versus what you are paying him/her?

Moreover, with some basic knowledge of the law, learned through assistance of other photographers could you negotiate yourself successfully out of a difficult situation without requiring a lawyer?

It is these considerations, which lead posters to ask legal questions in this forum and they should be able to expect better answers than consult your local lawyer.

skieur

 

[Josh66]

I think I know what you're saying, and I think I agree.

There are times when a well versed attorney's advice is the only thing you should seek out, and there are times when it's more simple than that. Then, there are the times when you just need to find out how complex the issue really is.

People on forums are quick to say 'get a lawyer' for a few reasons...
1) Nobody wants to be the one that gave bad advice.
2) Some people read a thread, don't know the answer, but want to post something anyway.
3) Sometimes that really is the best thing to do.

I think that 'most of the time' you can tell which category the person saying 'get a lawyer' falls in...

 

[benhasajeep]

I think part of the go get a lawyer answer is just due to a poster not knowing and thats all the advice they know to give.

I have only used a lawyer once in my life and won my case (I was the plantiff). My mother who has had the unfortunate experience of having a lawyer "friend" who was not that good of one. And used him quite a bit for business and other leagal dealings. He ended up getting disbarred. But she stood behind him becasue he was a friend. What some people don't realize is alot of these lawyers that do national ads are just looking for referals. They don't actually take 1/10 of the cases they get called on. But people are used to seeing laywers on tv and think the first thing to do is call a lawyer.

There is so much available on the web. Including case studies and old trials. That in quite a few issues I think if you really looked, you can probably find an example.

For me getting or telling someone to get a lawyer is a last case situation. The only people that win 100% of the time when lawyers are involved. Is the lawyers themselves!!!

To me saying go ask a lawyer response is the same as saying use the search button or check google. In some cases go get a lawyer is preceded by some thought and maybe an example. But too many times its just a curt go see a laywer. To me thats not helpful.

 

[tirediron]

The recommendation "See a lawyer" rarely answers the question that it is directed to, BUT it is the best advice for someone with a question based on the interpretation of a point of law. I say this for several reasons: 1. This is an international forum and while many laws are similar in many countries, fine points vary, even within a country. 2. There is a great risk of a well-meaning person dispensing what they believe to be good advice without actually knowing what the law is and the person who asked the question accepting it as correct.

Certainly there is a wealth of information available on line, and any responsible photographer should have a basic understanding of IP law in his/her region, but interpretation of law and legal advice is something best left to those with degrees in law (and no, I am NOT one of them, I don't even play one on television!).

 

[ghpham]

Will you be able to defend yourself if the other party used their lawyer?? that's the key question. You THINK you might know the law up until you end up in court and get tear to pieces. If hiring a lawyer is not financially sound, then perhaps one should not enter into business in the first place. Just because you personally have "won" over a lawyer on the net, it doesn't follow you might win in a court, and not everyone is bright enough to last.

 

[Garbz]

Will you be able to defend yourself if the other party used their lawyer?? that's the key question. You THINK you might know the law up until you end up in court and get tear to pieces.

Looks like you read the title but none of the posts. The old saying still holds true: "He who defends himself in court has a fool for a lawyer". It is never financially unsound to seek a lawyer when something escalates to court. However advice can be very financially sound when considering if you should or shouldn't proceed to consult a lawer.



"Seek a lawyer" is quite different advice from "seek a lawyer and don't ask a forum". Ultimately if anyone is serious they should seek a lawyer, but that doesn't mean people can make recommendations. For example:

How many people here are lawyers?
For all you non lawyers: If I'm out hiking in the bush and I take a photo of the sunset, who owns the copyright?
See how even the no-lawyers can answer that!

Or furthermore post a question on electrical safety or process safety here. I'll be happy to help you in great detail, because I like a lot of other people have photography as my hobby and not my job.

You never know what you may get in a forum, and it rarely hurts to ask.

 

[skieur]

The recommendation "See a lawyer" rarely answers the question that it is directed to, BUT it is the best advice for someone with a question based on the interpretation of a point of law. I say this for several reasons: 1. This is an international forum and while many laws are similar in many countries, fine points vary, even within a country. 2. There is a great risk of a well-meaning person dispensing what they believe to be good advice without actually knowing what the law is and the person who asked the question accepting it as correct.

Certainly there is a wealth of information available on line, and any responsible photographer should have a basic understanding of IP law in his/her region, but interpretation of law and legal advice is something best left to those with degrees in law (and no, I am NOT one of them, I don't even play one on television!).

Although this is an international forum, assumptions should NOT be made from the country of origin at the left. In Canada, if you work on productions that are going to be used in the US, then you learn American law as well as Canadian law if you wish to avoid potential problems. Moreover although fine points may vary, the questions asked have NOT been about fine points. Canadian law and British law is also very similar and basic rights laws apply in all western democracies.

The laws related to copyright and those that apply to street photography are fairly clear and should not require a lawyer to interpret them. Read the law and study related cases and it becomes very clear. No interpretation is necessary but there are plenty of legal books written by lawyers that some photographers refer to, regularly.

skieur

 

[skieur]

Will you be able to defend yourself if the other party used their lawyer?? that's the key question. You THINK you might know the law up until you end up in court and get tear to pieces. If hiring a lawyer is not financially sound, then perhaps one should not enter into business in the first place. Just because you personally have "won" over a lawyer on the net, it doesn't follow you might win in a court, and not everyone is bright enough to last.

You did not read my post. I said in person NOT on the net.

Yes, I would, because most individuals do not know or can't afford a very capable lawyer specializing in intellectual property and some laws do not require interpretation.

skieur

 

[Big Mike]

If you are going to make a mistake when you venture into something that carries a legal risk...what is a better excuse; "A lawyer told me it was OK" or "Some stranger on an Internet forum told me it was OK"

 

[mjhoward]

If you are going to make a mistake when you venture into something that carries a legal risk...what is a better excuse; "A lawyer told me it was OK" or "Some stranger on an Internet forum told me it was OK"

In the court of law, it's not going to matter... there are no excuses.

 

[Big Mike]

Just a thought, but if a lawyer gave you bad advice, that led to something bad, couldn't you sue that lawyer?

 

[skieur]

If you are going to make a mistake when you venture into something that carries a legal risk...what is a better excuse; "A lawyer told me it was OK" or "Some stranger on an Internet forum told me it was OK"

I would be hard pressed to see where quoting the law or rights under the Charter(Canada) or Constituion (US) would be a mistake.

skieur

 

[kundalini]

In the court of law, it's not going to matter... there are no excuses.

I've had more than one judge utter those same words......

I don't think there is any harm in asking forums opinions as a starting point if you should proceed forward, if you might have a case or if anyone else has had a similar situation.

 

[skieur]

Just a thought, but if a lawyer gave you bad advice, that led to something bad, couldn't you sue that lawyer?

Lawyers never give bad advice. They just give you the options and let you make the mistakes.

skieur

 

[Big Mike]

Just a thought, but if a lawyer gave you bad advice, that led to something bad, couldn't you sue that lawyer?

Lawyers never give bad advice. They just give you the options and let you make the mistakes.

skieur

Well there you go...Lawyers don't give bad advice...but people on a forum sure might.