Selling photos to others is not "the natural progression of photography"

[Dao]

I think sometimes back, someone post a chart of what avg photographer made .. then a lot of ppl said "He11 no! I am not giving up my current job" .

 

[Derrel]

I think social media, mostly Facebook, but also a few of the biggest web sites, have given hundreds of thousands of hobby shooters false hope,and a false representation of the marketplace. There are a ton of people offering seminars and workshops...make that SELLING seminars and workshops, and pushing "the dream". These so-called photographic educators are making most of their money offering education and training, to the point that they really are more active as educators than as full-time, regular ol' photographers.

In addition, there are all the watermark pro's on social media...you see their photos...their name + "Photography" (in script?) on images that look sorta' like pro shots, but not quite. After having seen a few thousand such images on social media and the web, I think people think, "Hey, I can take photos at least that good," and boom! They think they want to go pro. And here we are now in 2015...I have seen some absolutely dreadful wedding and portrait sessions on social media over the last six years, and so, well...if pics like those can be sold, then why not sell similar pics. Right?

I think this is how this idea of the insta-pro, and the progression has taken such a widespread hold: social media, and also the web-based "educators" and the "how-to workshop" photographers, pushing these damned workshops, many priced at up to $1,999. I think this industry, the training and education through workshop concept, has really been successful at brainwashing a lot of people, newcomers in particular, and creating the idea that the natural progression is,in actuality, being able to go out there and create sellable images. IN order to fill those workshops, the idea must exist that hey, You too can create professionally sellable images!"

 

[terri]

Spot on, Derrel.

 

[sabbath999]

Spot on, Derrel.

Agreed.

 

[jake337]

Hey, new TPF member here. My name is Jordan, and I live in Savannah,Georgia. So,long story short, I've been gifted a camera by my spouse, and am enjoying reading the manual and learning about the various modes my camera has. So far I have taken some pretty good photos of my kids, and am thinking of turning photography into a business. What lens should I buy next, and do I need a flash? I want to make some money taking senior,wedding,and baby and maternity pics. I have dreamed of becoming a professional photographer off and on, for the last six months or so. Now that I have the Rebel T5i and 18-55 lens, I think it is time to make that a reality. What tips can you fine people here give me?

That farcical post above is a fairly accurate representation of many posts we've seen here on TPF over the last seven years. I really think that a lot of folks do see shooting for money as the natural progression...except that many of them do not want there to be much of a progression, but instead some type of extremely rapid teleportation from the world of beginning shooter to established professional in something like, oh, say six months.

Does anyone know where I can find some free or cheap presets? I really want my images to"pop"!

 

[The_Traveler]

I have an almost visceral aversion to selling pictures. In my local club there are a couple of guys, friends, who are really good technical photographers and have ended up selling a few and that has distorted their entire attitude towards what they shoot.
That's not for me.
I like to shoot what I like to shoot and I don't want to think there is a dollar bill between me and the camera.

 

[charchri4]

Oh come on just last week I had a guy buy me lunch as thanks for shot I took of him so 6 months to be full time no problem.

 

[jaomul]

There is the fact also that there has kind of been a recession going on the last few years. Many people will try their hand at something on the side to make ends meet. Here on TPF we see the guys/girls who think taking a nice photo may be the way to get some extra money because, as said earlier, there are some terrible photos on social media of weddings, portraits, events etc. It's understandable that someone could look at these and say "I could do better", not really taking into account that the photo got 3000 likes because the someone tagged is popular.

I have seen guys tiling, plumbing and even doing electrics in the last few years. I went to school with some of these people. They are not tilers, plumbers or electricians, more so handymen in a time now where regulations make handymen obsolete.

At least, I suppose, a "PRO" photographer generally wont create an unsafe situation due lack of training

 

[charchri4]

At least, I suppose, a "PRO" photographer generally wont create an unsafe situation due lack of training

Does that mean I should stop working on my neighbors car? I think you are right in what you are saying but you have to understand the draw for us newbees too. We paid 800 bucks for a professional photo session at our family reunion last summer. She and her side kick had all the fancy gear but were only there about an hour, took no time to get to know who she was shooting and made us wait 3 weeks for proofs. They were so bad I paid the extra 150 bucks for the disc so I could pull them into light room and salvage them enough to print for grandma. And started camera shopping...

Now before you go off on me I have no illusions of ever making a dime shooting photos but I doubt I'll ever pay a pro again either.

Portrait of a cowbell just to lighten the mood because who doesn't like more cowbell?

 

[tirediron]

At least, I suppose, a "PRO" photographer generally wont create an unsafe situation due lack of training

Does that mean I should stop working on my neighbors car? I think you are right in what you are saying but you have to understand the draw for us newbees too. We paid 800 bucks for a professional photo session at our family reunion last summer. She and her side kick had all the fancy gear but were only there about an hour, took no time to get to know who she was shooting and made us wait 3 weeks for proofs. They were so bad I paid the extra 150 bucks for the disc so I could pull them into light room and salvage them enough to print for grandma. And started camera shopping...

This is something else we hear a LOT around here, and I'm curious - $800 is not a small amount for most people; so, before you handed that over, did you do any research? Did you visit her website or view her portfolio? How did the images there compare to what you received?

 

[charchri4]

Yep my daughter did the due diligence with her and talked to several to narrow it down. To be fair we have a close family friend who is also her best friend that is an amazing photographer so the bar was set pretty high. So this is what we expected Cool beans! - Family photo session and I kid you not this is what we got. Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet (LOL yes my son and I were both wearing the same shirt 5 years later...)

For what it's worth 800 was the total for the windshield time, session, a couple dozen prints and the disc. Her website looks good and she can do good work she just didn't with us. I suspect she was desperate because of the 88 photos on the disc 30 of them were duplicates in black and white or some variation on a crop and at least 60 of them should have never been shown to any customer.

My point is it's easy to see how a novice like me can look at this and have no doubt I could have done better...

 

[The_Traveler]

I have to say that I wouldn't have hired this person.
Her stuff look really average, WB off, very average posing, framing and editing.

 

[charchri4]

Traveler which session are you referring to? I should point out that was Amandas 2nd family shoot ever and you should see her work today. Next time I'm buying her a plane ticket!

 

[Derrel]

Sorry to have to say it charchri4, but you got MWAC'd. I went to her blog and IMMEDIATELY recognized a selt-taught, inept shooter's work. I could tell, within two seconds, that she has the noob-like habit of making group photos wide-open. Pulling EXIF info confirmed what I suspected...she's a 50mm shooter...wide-open at f/1.4, from close-range on SIX-person family photos...over and over and over again. Legs OOF, knees OOF, heads OOF, entire people OOF...utterly unprofessional shooting on the first two sets. I loved her comment that her sister wanted individual photos of each of the four kids as part of the family session, something ,"which we had never done," she wrote. F***** laughable, that!

This person might be charging, but her work is awful. She has loads of group photos with four inches in-focus, and then ENTIRE family poses where their bodies,legs,feet, and entire rows--are ALL BADLY out of focus. It is as if this woman has no idea of f/5.6.

The happy families and joy do NOT make up for incredible technique and stylistic deficiencies. This is unprofessional work. If she were a race car driver, she would only use second gear.

WIDE-OPEN, baby!

 

[charchri4]

Wow really? Sounds like you looked at some of her more current work. I changed the post to have my family up there but still surprised to hear the response. I guess I don't see the technical aspects so much just the personality of the subject and how it impacts me.

But you just drove home the point this thread is trying to say is impossible. For all her ineptness Amanda makes a very good living and works as much as she wants to. She successfully moved her business from Minneapolis to Kansas City and barely missed a beat for sessions. The reason you don't see senior photos on her site is because she makes enough shooting what she enjoys.

So is the definition of professional what the market wants or what the critics declare as worthy?

PS to the rest of you I believe this is the session Darrel is talking about. The Bailey Family 2015 | Lifestyle Family Photographer