Should I drop the money to start a photo business?

[tirediron]

Now wait... We all know that isn't the absolute necessity and that the OP CAN do it on 13K in equipment or less. That list is the ideals, It's not the absolute HAVE TO HAVE minimum-that is the absolute dream setup. Even if I had the money to start out with all of that I think I'd be a bit more frugal and careful with my purchases until I know I am successful. I can pretty easily whittle that down and still have an excellent setup. While assuming that he's got NO gear that is going to be transferred from his old kit.
How would I keep my costs under control with a Nikon gear list?
Nikon D800 (expected release price) $2495
Nikon D7000 Back up $1400
Sigma 70-200 OS $1400
Sigma 24-70 OS $1000
Nikon 85mm f/1.8 $500
Nikon 35mm f/1.8 $200
Tokina 11-16 $650
SB910 $550
(3) YN-560 speedlites $225
Stands etc (4) $200
Tripod $200
Studio Lighting $500
Photoshop CS5/CS6 $700
Computer System $1500
Backdrop stand & backdrops 1000
Soft Boxes/modifiers etc. $300
Accounting/management thru StudioCloud's free single user

I am at $12825. It's not top of the line or EVERYTHING you would want or ever need, but it is definitely not bottom of the barrel garbage. It's GOOD lenses, GOOD camera bodies, good basic lighting, etc.
I don't know many photographers who started out with even that much of GOOD gear in the beginning.

Very true, and hence my recommendations to contact Nikon USA for government pricing and find an assistant's job first to learn, build skill and equipment.

 

[MLeeK]

Very true, and hence my recommendations to contact Nikon USA for government pricing and find an assistant's job first to learn, build skill and equipment.

I have to admit, I kind of assumed a fairly decent amount of skill and mostly lack of confidence, whereas your advice may well be right. We haven't a clue as to the OP's abilities.

 

[2WheelPhoto]

I agree with MLEEK.

Student discounts may be worth mention, there are deep discounts at BHPHOTO on sigma lens products, backdrops, stands and lighting mentioned. Plus computers (just bought an iMac right on the student gig!). And also we know adobe's deep student discounts. Hope i can stretch this college photography program out =)

 

[tirediron]

Even if he's a stellar photographer, IMO, a couple of years working as a dog's body will give him an invaluable business education. We do need more info though.

 

[MLeeK]

I agree with MLEEK.

Student discounts may be worth mention, there are deep discounts at BHPHOTO on sigma lens products, backdrops, stands and lighting mentioned. Plus computers (just bought an iMac right on the student gig!). And also we know adobe's deep student discounts. Hope i can stretch this college photography program out =)

And you can use your GI bill to enroll in a correspondence course or two in a business field while you are deployed... Win-WIN situation!

 

[Fingtam]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'll try to fill you all in with a little more info. The type of photography I was looking into is weddings/portraits/events, although I would be open to getting into other areas of photography once I learn a little more and establish myself better.
I find I am usually my harshest critic, but I DO NOT consider my photography skills stellar at the time being. Although, of the two weddings I've shot in the past, both brides kept telling me how much they loved loved loved their photos, and one even recommended me for her friend's wedding. As of now I would feel comfortable charging clients to shoot family portraits or senior pictures, but not weddings or one time events in which I'm expected to capture their memories forever. Also, I'm taking my D40 with me to Africa this year, and I'm planning on practicing a lot.


As of right now I'm operating under the pretense that the only way to get good at something [running a business] is by doing it. I'm visualizing the beginning of my photography career as something I would take on slowly. As in low prices, only occasional jobs, and being upfront with clients about my lack of experience before they commit to choosing me. Excepting the huge upfront expense of equipment I don't plan on jumping headfirst into this. I obviously wouldn't start by booking a wedding every weekend. My goal is not to turn a profit right away but to start building and learning how to run a functional business that I fully understand the ins and outs of by around the time I get out of the Marine Corps.

Now, as far as equiptment goes, I'm only leaning towards Nikon because that is what I currently use, and I have a few Nikon lenses. I suppose if there is ever a good time to switch teams it would be now before I dump a truckload of money into Nikon gear.

I was seriously considering the D700 because I think that is all I need for now, but I figured it might be better for me just to shell out a little extra cash now and get a nicer camera that I can grow into as my skills develop more. I'll take into account the recommendations about the D800, or any others you think might fit me well.
I already have several mid range lenses, but the $13,000 I mentioned earlier includes a:
Nikon 16-35mm f/4
Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-S
and a Nikon 70-200mm VR II

I'd also like to stress that the 13,000 isn't a max for me. It's just the number I got when I added up the price of all the toys I want. I never saw that as a number that would buy me everything I need.
I'm also in a good financial position to regularly add to my arsenal after my initial investment (I live on base with free room and board, my car is paid off, I only have a cell phone bill, and I have no debt, so I'm free to spend my pay checks on whatever I want).

 

[2WheelPhoto]

FYI- The Sigma 50mm 1.4 is getting much better reviews than the Nikon. I'm about to throw one in my bag. It costs a little more and weighs a dash more but I'm running with it. Student discount applies to it too at bhphoto.com/edu

 

[Fingtam]

Also, I read way more than the average 22 year old male. I will definitely be picking up for myself books on photography skills, business management, and marketing. And I do intend to take some college courses in the future too. By the way, All college that I take while I'm in the military is automatically free without even using my GI bill.

 

[MacHoot]

A wise man once told me the easiest way to make money with your camera is to sell it.

 

[MLeeK]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'll try to fill you all in with a little more info. The type of photography I was looking into is weddings/portraits/events, although I would be open to getting into other areas of photography once I learn a little more and establish myself better.
I find I am usually my harshest critic, but I DO NOT consider my photography skills stellar at the time being. Although, of the two weddings I've shot in the past, both brides kept telling me how much they loved loved loved their photos, and one even recommended me for her friend's wedding. As of now I would feel comfortable charging clients to shoot family portraits or senior pictures, but not weddings or one time events in which I'm expected to capture their memories forever. Also, I'm taking my D40 with me to Africa this year, and I'm planning on practicing a lot.


As of right now I'm operating under the pretense that the only way to get good at something [running a business] is by doing it. I'm visualizing the beginning of my photography career as something I would take on slowly. As in low prices, only occasional jobs, and being upfront with clients about my lack of experience before they commit to choosing me. Excepting the huge upfront expense of equipment I don't plan on jumping headfirst into this. I obviously wouldn't start by booking a wedding every weekend. My goal is not to turn a profit right away but to start building and learning how to run a functional business that I fully understand the ins and outs of by around the time I get out of the Marine Corps.

Now, as far as equiptment goes, I'm only leaning towards Nikon because that is what I currently use, and I have a few Nikon lenses. I suppose if there is ever a good time to switch teams it would be now before I dump a truckload of money into Nikon gear.

I was seriously considering the D700 because I think that is all I need for now, but I figured it might be better for me just to shell out a little extra cash now and get a nicer camera that I can grow into as my skills develop more. I'll take into account the recommendations about the D800, or any others you think might fit me well.
I already have several mid range lenses, but the $13,000 I mentioned earlier includes a:
Nikon 16-35mm f/4
Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-S
and a Nikon 70-200mm VR II

I'd also like to stress that the 13,000 isn't a max for me. It's just the number I got when I added up the price of all the toys I want. I never saw that as a number that would buy me everything I need.
I'm also in a good financial position to regularly add to my arsenal after my initial investment (I live on base with free room and board, my car is paid off, I only have a cell phone bill, and I have no debt, so I'm free to spend my pay checks on whatever I want).

That can be a career killer. Really spend some time reading Todd Reichman's blog up there in that link. He is a brilliant business man and if you get a chance to actually talk about business with him (he's popped in a time or two) he has some incredibly good things to say and advice for those starting out.
His blog will really give you some incredible thoughts and ideas for building your business plan.

 

[KmH]

It hasn't changed in a long time.

About 85% of all new small businesses fail before they reach their 5th year in business. The #1 reason small businesses fail is because the business was making less money than was being spent to run the business. The problem usually being the business owner wasn't good enough at doing business.

Today, a full time photography business that does not have a studio requires about $120,000 a year in gross revenue for the business owner to make minimum wage after also paying for health/car insurance.

If the business has a studio, figure you will need gross revenues of about $175,000 a year.

Here is another clue - the majority of a photography business owners time is spent doing business tasks, not photography tasks. Particularly those that do retail photography (weddings/portraits/events). Marketing and promotion plans have to be invented, developed, and implimented for various times of the year.

Currently the retail photography business is flooded with new photographers. Most, but by no means all, are clueless about both photography and business - so there is a lot of churn.

It can be done. Good luck to you. :thumbup:

 

[pgriz]

Let’s do a thought exercise. We’ll take Keith’s number. $120,000/yr is $10,000 per month, or $2,500 per week. For sake of discussion, let’s say that is ONE engagement per week, grossing $2,500 (actual situation will obviously vary, but I’m focusing on the effort required to get that weekly revenue, so bear with me).

Now, that $2,500 should be money in the bank. What’s the gap between getting the job done and getting paid? If you are lucky, very little. Realistically, there may be anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of months between delivery of services and receipt of payment. So, in this thought exercise, you did the job the previous week (week -1), and were paid this week (week 0).

Now, how long did the job take? Again, if you’re well organized, you were able to do it the previous week (week -2). And the contract to do this engagement was signed the week before (week -3). Now this contract was initiated maybe two weeks before that when you found the client (or they found you), and you initiated the discussions (so, initial contact in week -5).

Now, the initial marketing done to get your client was done probably anywhere from a week to several months earlier. So the “seeds” were planted maybe 8-9 weeks earlier (so start of marketing effort was around week -14).

Now let’s play this forward. In week -14, you put out your marketing materials (web site, door hangers, newspaper advertising, etc.). Over the next month or two, you will get prospective clients coming out of the woodwork. Not every prospect will be a paying client. In fact, depending on the industry and region, you may have to meet and quote up to 20 prospects to get one paying client. If you are lucky and very good in your marketing, that may be as little as 1 in 3. So, in the worse case, you may need to meet up to 20 prospects to get the paying client that you collect from in week 0.

Note that we made a bunch of optimistic assumptions about how quickly a contract becomes actual revenue. In reality, things rarely go smoothly. The project scope changes. The timing/schedule changes. The customer may or may not be able to pay on time. And while you are dealing with all this, you still have anywhere from three to twenty new prospects each week to qualify, meet, and quote. You can’t do this unless you are very, very well organized, and have some kind of contact management system in place. You also can’t dick around and spend lots of quality time with each prospect (well, you can, but you have to figure out how much is the right amount). And, you have to meet people when THEY are available, not when you have time.

This discourse says that to get the revenue coming in on a more or less reliable fashion, you need a pipeline of prospects, signed contracts, work in progress, and accounts receivable. Every part of the pipeline needs to be managed and followed up on. And since this is the real world, stuff breaks down, cars stop working, clients lose their jobs, your computer gets a nasty virus, etc. To keep things flowing more or less smoothly, you need backup, for equipment, for transportation, for you.

That is one reason why many startup businesses fail. They haven’t geared up for the pipeline of effort required. The second most common reason for failure is lack of working capital – your expenses are NOW, and your revenue may be out 10-15 weeks.

So there are a number of things to track when you’re in business.
a) Number of responses to any marketing campaign.
b) Percentage of responses converting to serious prospects.
c) Percentage of prospects converting to contracts.
d) Average time from contract to revenue.
e) Percentage of revenue in default (late or non-paying).

There are other things to consider (revenue per contract, average net profit per contract, number of contracts needed each period to break even, etc.), but this is focusing on the upstream activities to get the revenue. Isn't being your own boss just GREAT?!

 

[2WheelPhoto]

I like these charts to keep me in weekend photog/hobbyis mod eeven though I'm a college photo student and invested a lot in equipment.

The "perception" of a photographer

The "reality"

 

[Fingtam]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'll try to fill you all in with a little more info. The type of photography I was looking into is weddings/portraits/events, although I would be open to getting into other areas of photography once I learn a little more and establish myself better. I find I am usually my harshest critic, but I DO NOT consider my photography skills stellar at the time being. Although, of the two weddings I've shot in the past, both brides kept telling me how much they loved loved loved their photos, and one even recommended me for her friend's wedding. As of now I would feel comfortable charging clients to shoot family portraits or senior pictures, but not weddings or one time events in which I'm expected to capture their memories forever. Also, I'm taking my D40 with me to Africa this year, and I'm planning on practicing a lot. As of right now I'm operating under the pretense that the only way to get good at something [running a business] is by doing it. I'm visualizing the beginning of my photography career as something I would take on slowly. As in low prices, only occasional jobs, and being upfront with clients about my lack of experience before they commit to choosing me. Excepting the huge upfront expense of equipment I don't plan on jumping headfirst into this. I obviously wouldn't start by booking a wedding every weekend. My goal is not to turn a profit right away but to start building and learning how to run a functional business that I fully understand the ins and outs of by around the time I get out of the Marine Corps. Now, as far as equiptment goes, I'm only leaning towards Nikon because that is what I currently use, and I have a few Nikon lenses. I suppose if there is ever a good time to switch teams it would be now before I dump a truckload of money into Nikon gear. I was seriously considering the D700 because I think that is all I need for now, but I figured it might be better for me just to shell out a little extra cash now and get a nicer camera that I can grow into as my skills develop more. I'll take into account the recommendations about the D800, or any others you think might fit me well. I already have several mid range lenses, but the $13,000 I mentioned earlier includes a:Nikon 16-35mm f/4Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-Sand a Nikon 70-200mm VR III'd also like to stress that the 13,000 isn't a max for me. It's just the number I got when I added up the price of all the toys I want. I never saw that as a number that would buy me everything I need.I'm also in a good financial position to regularly add to my arsenal after my initial investment (I live on base with free room and board, my car is paid off, I only have a cell phone bill, and I have no debt, so I'm free to spend my pay checks on whatever I want).

That can be a career killer. Really spend some time reading Todd Reichman's blog up there in that link. He is a brilliant business man and if you get a chance to actually talk about business with him (he's popped in a time or two) he has some incredibly good things to say and advice for those starting out. His blog will really give you some incredible thoughts and ideas for building your business plan.

Could you clarify that a bit? What exactly is the career killer?

Edit: Sorry, I just noticed you highlighted the "low prices" part. I understand a business obviously can't be run when prices are too low and a profit isn't being made. When I said that I was only referring to the very start up of the business to give me some time to get my feet wet, learn how to operate the business, and establish myself as a photographer. After the initial shock, and by the time I figure out what I'm doing I would increase my prices to something around the norm.
Since I'm not dependent on photography for a living I figured it would just be a good way to get the first few clients without ripping them off.

 

[MLeeK]

Its incredibly complicated, read Todd's blog from the get go first. Then we can get in deeper into the discussion. I will see if I can find the entry I am thinking of when I am not posting from my phone. Basically his theory is practice and learn until you are "good enough" to confidently sell your services. Then go all or go home. There is a lot more to it and Todd speaks and writes it well. If you are an avid reader it shouldn't take all that long to read thru most of it. There are a lot of entries, but look for the specific pricing strategy stuff for what I am talking about here.