So, we demo'd 6Ds over the last week, and ugh, what was Canon thinking

KenC · Dec 19, 2012

I don't understand the 6D either. Before it appeared I assumed it was directed at Rebel owners like me who wanted to upgrade to full-frame for better quality. However, I can't justify spending what they are asking for it. I don't know what I expected in terms of price, but I guess if it had come in at not much over $1K I might have been tempted, but for a one or maybe two stop improvement in noise over my T2i it's just not worth it. I don't even care about the defects that have been pointed out re autofocus, fps, low sync speed, only one card, etc., and the smaller lighter body than the 5D series actually is a plus to me, but just not worth the money, imo.

fjrabon · Dec 19, 2012

KenC said:
I don't understand the 6D either. Before it appeared I assumed it was directed at Rebel owners like me who wanted to upgrade to full-frame for better quality. However, I can't justify spending what they are asking for it. I don't know what I expected in terms of price, but I guess if it had come in at not much over $1K I might have been tempted, but for a one or maybe two stop improvement in noise over my T2i it's just not worth it. I don't even care about the defects that have been pointed out re autofocus, fps, low sync speed, only one card, etc., and the smaller lighter body than the 5D series actually is a plus to me, but just not worth the money, imo.

Yeah, that was sort of my issue, it's still too expensive for most APS-C owners to really want it. It might snare some 60D owners who have been considering a jump to full frame for a while anyway. But it's not going to convince anybody that was on the fence to come on over.

rexbobcat · Dec 19, 2012

STIC said:
See, now i wouldn't even have bothered looking at a 60D when upgrading from the 40D, as soon as i heard about the specs of the 7D, that was the camera for me (because i can't justify spending 3 times as much on a 5DIII).

Yes but I bought the 60D when the camera And the kit lens were $1099, and the 7D body alone was about $1400-1700.

I also only had my 1D ad no wide angle.

I know I sound super cheap but I'm willing to give up ALOT if it means saving money. I'm just a po' boy.

fjrabon · Dec 19, 2012

Derrel said:
Satisfaction with a specific product is based partly on prior products, and the features those products had, or lacked. MANY APS-C cameras are very feature-rich, since the sensor costs are so,so low. On full-frame d-slrs, the sensor is a substantially larger part of the total manufacturing cost, and let's face it--the $2,000 price point is $1,400 lower than Canon's previously lowest-cost FF bodies have premiered at. "Something's gotta give." To a user like fjrabon who is used to the Canon 7D, the simplified feature set of the 6D is actually...kind of a step down...

The simplified AF system with just one single cross-type AF sensor, no built-in flash, no built-in flash commander, and low sync speed...all of those things place the 6D body in the "simplified" class. The sensor performance seems good, but there have been features removed...the 60D and 7D both have much,much greater capabilities, spec- and feature-wise. My biggest concern was fjrabon's tale of dismal autofocusing performance!!!

The more I've thought about this, canon must be intending for users to only use the central point in any remotely low light. I've never seen any camera with such a gulf between quality of the central point to lack of quality of the other points.

To Rex, if all you're after is a great sensor with great ISO performance, then sure, this is a fine camera. That was the first thing I said in my review. Nobody debates that. What it comes down to is how important everything else is to you. For you, those concerns don't seem to be important, for me they're probably more important than high ISO performance. Especially for my location work, which is what we were considering this camera for.

rexbobcat · Dec 19, 2012

fjrabon said:
The more I've thought about this, canon must be intending for users to only use the central point in any remotely low light. I've never seen any camera with such a gulf between quality of the central point to lack of quality of the other points.

To Rex, if all you're after is a great sensor with great ISO performance, then sure, this is a fine camera. That was the first thing I said in my review. Nobody debates that. What it comes down to is how important everything else is to you. For you, those concerns don't seem to be important, for me they're probably more important than high ISO performance. Especially for my location work, which is what we were considering this camera for.

I was just trying to make the case that the6D isn't necessarily a bad camera. It's just not for some people who need more.

Derrel's first sentence is fairly true. If I was used to driving a Ferrari and I try out a Toyota Prius I'm probably going to think it's crap even though it seems adequate enough for a lot of people lol.

gsgary · Dec 19, 2012

It will probably work better in the hands of a real pro

fjrabon · Dec 19, 2012

gsgary said:
It will probably work better in the hands of a real pro

Yeah, I'm sure that a real pro can increase x sync speed magically. And cause either a built in flash or a sync port to grow out of the camera. Again, the issue wasn't image quality. It takes gorgeous pictures. But so does a 5D classic.

bratkinson · Dec 20, 2012

Part of Canons' strategy for the 6D is what's known as 'price point marketing'. Many buyers have certain dollar amounts in mind to spend when buying a car, a refridgerator, computer, and yes, even a camera. The 'trick' to any successful company is having something for each of the major price point that buyers may have in mind.

Hence, the 6D. Considering that the 5D mark ii is likely no longer produced, what model exists for someone between the $1400 7D and $3400 5D3? Throw in the 'so much better' full frame size sensor and the 6D is a perfect fit for someone with $2500 or so to spend on a body as well as being the 'entry level' full frame camera.

Hey, compared to a 5D3, the 6D is a Chevette (remember those?). But just as the Chevette got one around town, so, too, will a 6D take good pictures.

Derrel · Dec 20, 2012

bratkinson said:
Hey, compared to a 5D3, the 6D is a Chevette (remember those?). But just as the Chevette got one around town, so, too, will a 6D take good pictures.

You comment likening the Canon 6D to the Chevrolet Chevette is what is called "damning with faint praise.

"As the North American International Auto Show kicks off in Detroit, TIME and Dan Neil, Pulitzer Prize-winning automotive critic and syndicated columnist for the Los Angeles Times, look at the greatest lemons of the automotive industry."

1976 Chevy Chevette - The 50 Worst Cars of All Time - TIME

The 50 Worst Cars of All Time
1975-19891976 Chevy Chevette

bratkinson · Dec 20, 2012

Okay...Cadillac Cimmaron. It was a Cadillac as well! Just like the 6D is a Canon!

Derrel · Dec 20, 2012

Ohhhhh...another marketing failure...that was the Caddy that Caddy owners refused to buy!!!! In droves!!!

STIC · Dec 20, 2012

bratkinson · Dec 21, 2012

STIC said:
More like, the 5D3 is a modern corvette with a big block, the 7D is a modern corvette with a small block and the 6D is a (RHD) corvair with a big block shoehorned in, but the steering and suspension are crap...

Actually, Chrysler Corporation effectively did that with their Laser/Charger of 1984-88. I think it was '86 they came out with the GLH...a super light/cheap body Dodge Horizon with the same turbo-charged, fuel injected, 5 speed 4 banger engine and tranny as the Laser/Charger. I had a Laser. The only drag I ever lost with it was a GLH...400 pounds less car! Rumor was that when Lee Ioccoca test drove the first one, he said it 'Goes Like Hell!'...hence the name...GLH.

PS...my biggest 'victory' was blowing by a 351 Mustang about 50 yards out of a stoplight. He thought he had me...then the turbo kicked in!

TheFantasticG · Dec 21, 2012

fjrabon said:
Yeah, that was sort of my issue, it's still too expensive for most APS-C owners to really want it. It might snare some 60D owners who have been considering a jump to full frame for a while anyway. But it's not going to convince anybody that was on the fence to come on over.

As a 60D and D7000 owner I would go D600 a thousand times over before I go with a 6D. When I heard it had mostly the same AF system as the 60D they totally lost me as a future customer for the 6D. The AF system the 60D made me appreciate my D7000's AF system much more than I did when I went from the D90 to the D7000. I hear the 5Dmk2 AF ain't far off from the 60D AF either... In which case I'd buy a D700.