So Who Believes that Full Frame Camera's Gather More Light Then APSC

[donny1963]

Ok so who out there Believes that a Full Frame Camera, gathers more light then a crop sensor camera?
Or Who believes that a larger sensor gathers more then vs a smaller sensor??

 

[donny1963]

first all let me stress that Exposure is : per unit area, a crop sensor camera gets the same amount of light then a full frame camera does..

now if you think that isn't true then why doesn't any light meter have an entry for sensor size?
meaning you tell the light meter your measuring for a full frame sensor vs a crop sensor? Reason?? Is because it doesn't matter both sensors get the same amount of light..

Exposure is per unit area, if you travel from the state of NY, to RI, once you get to RI will you get less light in RI then you did in NY?
NO..

also some say that, Bigger sensors require less resolving power of the lenses to be sharper.

Actually it's just the opposite..
every lens crops out a circle of light, if you use a full frame lens on a crop sensor, the crop sensor is using the center of the full frame lens, which is always the best part of that lens,

kind of cutting the crust off of your bread.

Full frame sensors are always using more of that circle of projection,
every lens drops a circle, the bigger the sensor the more of that circle it's using.

The further out it goes the worst it gets,
and it doesn't matter what lens from a cheap lens

or super expensive , like, leica or zeiss,

the further you go out of the center of the circle of projection the worst the image gets,

and another thing people think that ISO is connected to exposure, that is not true ISO is applied gain, if you don't believe me just look up the word iso invariance,
https://improvephotography.com/34818/iso-invariance/

people think of bigger sensors gathering more light like a window in a room, bigger window opening the shades means more light in the room, then if you open the shades on a smaller windwo,
but Sensors don't work that way,
it's per unit area...
People always think full frame gives you more light then smaller sensors, (NOT TRUE)
Donny

 

[480sparky]

I've never heard of such a 'belief'. So I guess I don't believe it.

 

[smoke665]

Not to start an argument but isn't this a redux of the same premise you brought up in earlier threads this year?

 

[Braineack]

people always thing a lot of things.

 

[Ysarex]

first all let me stress that Exposure is : per unit area, a crop sensor camera gets the same amount of light then a full frame camera does..

now if you think that isn't true then why doesn't any light meter have an entry for sensor size?
meaning you tell the light meter your measuring for a full frame sensor vs a crop sensor? Reason?? Is because it doesn't matter both sensors get the same amount of light..

Exposure is per unit area, if you travel from the state of NY, to RI, once you get to RI will you get less light in RI then you did in NY?
NO..

The total unit area of New York is 141,300 square km. The total unit are of Rhode Island is 3,144 square km. Exposure is measured in lux seconds (per unit area). If 3 lux seconds per square km of exposure falls on both New York and Rhode Island then New York will receive a total exposure of 423,900 lux seconds and Rhode Island will receive a total exposure of 9,432 lux seconds.

3 = 3.
423,900 != 9,432.

The significance of those two equations I'm sure the OP will now lucidly explain in photographic terms.

also some say that, Bigger sensors require less resolving power of the lenses to be sharper.

Actually it's just the opposite..
every lens crops out a circle of light, if you use a full frame lens on a crop sensor, the crop sensor is using the center of the full frame lens, which is always the best part of that lens,

kind of cutting the crust off of your bread.

Full frame sensors are always using more of that circle of projection,
every lens drops a circle, the bigger the sensor the more of that circle it's using.

The further out it goes the worst it gets,
and it doesn't matter what lens from a cheap lens

or super expensive , like, leica or zeiss,

the further you go out of the center of the circle of projection the worst the image gets,

and another thing people think that ISO is connected to exposure, that is not true ISO is applied gain, if you don't believe me just look up the word iso invariance,
https://improvephotography.com/34818/iso-invariance/

people think of bigger sensors gathering more light like a window in a room, bigger window opening the shades means more light in the room, then if you open the shades on a smaller windwo,
but Sensors don't work that way,
it's per unit area...
People always things full frame gives you more light then smaller sensors, (NOT TRUE)

You're right! That's not true because people don't always think full frame gives you more light than smaller sensors. OMG! They never did!

People do know that a larger sensor gathers more total light than a smaller sensor which is a different think altogether.

Joe

Donny

 

[Braineack]

...a smaller sensor which is a different think altogether.

 

[pixmedic]

people always thing a lot of things.

 

[smoke665]

I've never heard of such a 'belief'. So I guess I don't believe it.

The negation of the maxim "You cannot prove a negative" is not "All negatives can be proven" but "At least one negative can be proven" or, to mirror the maxim more closely, "You can prove a negative." The existence of one (or more) unprovable negatives does not render my position untenable. One single counter-example destroys the claim that "No negatives can be proven", but no single example establishes it.

Sorry we had our oldest grandsons this week, who are in advanced schools for the gifted, which includes the study of logic and are both on debate teams. I have learned that I am no match for them!!! LOL

 

[donny1963]

Larger sensors DO NOT GATHER MORE LIGHT..
if that was true the light meters would have to have a setting to account for large sensors vs small sensors, there is no such setting why? because The sensor size has nothing to do with how much light you get in your image, NONE!!!!
You can keep thinking that but you would be wrong..

first all let me stress that Exposure is : per unit area, a crop sensor camera gets the same amount of light then a full frame camera does..

now if you think that isn't true then why doesn't any light meter have an entry for sensor size?
meaning you tell the light meter your measuring for a full frame sensor vs a crop sensor? Reason?? Is because it doesn't matter both sensors get the same amount of light..

Exposure is per unit area, if you travel from the state of NY, to RI, once you get to RI will you get less light in RI then you did in NY?
NO..

View attachment 159032

The total unit area of New York is 141,300 square km. The total unit are of Rhode Island is 3,144 square km. Exposure is measured in lux seconds (per unit area). If 3 lux seconds per square km of exposure falls on both New York and Rhode Island then New York will receive a total exposure of 423,900 lux seconds and Rhode Island will receive a total exposure of 9,432 lux seconds.

3 = 3.
423,900 != 9,432.

The significance of those two equations I'm sure the OP will now lucidly explain in photographic terms.

also some say that, Bigger sensors require less resolving power of the lenses to be sharper.

Actually it's just the opposite..
every lens crops out a circle of light, if you use a full frame lens on a crop sensor, the crop sensor is using the center of the full frame lens, which is always the best part of that lens,

kind of cutting the crust off of your bread.

Full frame sensors are always using more of that circle of projection,
every lens drops a circle, the bigger the sensor the more of that circle it's using.

The further out it goes the worst it gets,
and it doesn't matter what lens from a cheap lens

or super expensive , like, leica or zeiss,

the further you go out of the center of the circle of projection the worst the image gets,

and another thing people think that ISO is connected to exposure, that is not true ISO is applied gain, if you don't believe me just look up the word iso invariance,
https://improvephotography.com/34818/iso-invariance/

people think of bigger sensors gathering more light like a window in a room, bigger window opening the shades means more light in the room, then if you open the shades on a smaller windwo,
but Sensors don't work that way,
it's per unit area...
People always things full frame gives you more light then smaller sensors, (NOT TRUE)

You're right! That's not true because people don't always think full frame gives you more light than smaller sensors. OMG! They never did!

People do know that a larger sensor gathers more total light than a smaller sensor which is a different think altogether.

Joe

Donny

 

[donny1963]

that's total BS, The state of RI is receiving the same amount of light as the state of NY is.
each per unit area gets the same amount of light, weather the sensor is med format large or crop the same amount of light his them sensors, no more no less..




The total unit area of New York is 141,300 square km. The total unit are of Rhode Island is 3,144 square km. Exposure is measured in lux seconds (per unit area). If 3 lux seconds per square km of exposure falls on both New York and Rhode Island then New York will receive a total exposure of 423,900 lux seconds and Rhode Island will receive a total exposure of 9,432 lux seconds.

3 = 3.
423,900 != 9,432.

The significance of those two equations I'm sure the OP will now lucidly explain in photographic terms.

also some say that, Bigger sensors require less resolving power of the lenses to be sharper.

Actually it's just the opposite..
every lens crops out a circle of light, if you use a full frame lens on a crop sensor, the crop sensor is using the center of the full frame lens, which is always the best part of that lens,

kind of cutting the crust off of your bread.

Full frame sensors are always using more of that circle of projection,
every lens drops a circle, the bigger the sensor the more of that circle it's using.

The further out it goes the worst it gets,
and it doesn't matter what lens from a cheap lens

or super expensive , like, leica or zeiss,

the further you go out of the center of the circle of projection the worst the image gets,

and another thing people think that ISO is connected to exposure, that is not true ISO is applied gain, if you don't believe me just look up the word iso invariance,
https://improvephotography.com/34818/iso-invariance/

people think of bigger sensors gathering more light like a window in a room, bigger window opening the shades means more light in the room, then if you open the shades on a smaller windwo,
but Sensors don't work that way,
it's per unit area...
People always things full frame gives you more light then smaller sensors, (NOT TRUE)

You're right! That's not true because people don't always think full frame gives you more light than smaller sensors. OMG! They never did!

People do know that a larger sensor gathers more total light than a smaller sensor which is a different think altogether.

Joe

Donny

[/QUOTE]

 

[smoke665]

Larger sensors DO NOT GATHER MORE LIGHT..
if that was true the light meters would have to have a setting to account for large sensors vs small sensors, t

Lost me on the direction you're taking with your argument. Your original question was "Ok so who out there Believes that a Full Frame Camera, gathers more light then a crop sensor camera?
Or Who believes that a larger sensor gathers more then vs a smaller sensor??". It appears that no one including yourself believes that so where are you going with this?

 

[donny1963]

Larger sensors DO NOT GATHER MORE LIGHT..
if that was true the light meters would have to have a setting to account for large sensors vs small sensors, t

Lost me on the direction you're taking with your argument. Your original question was "Ok so who out there Believes that a Full Frame Camera, gathers more light then a crop sensor camera?
Or Who believes that a larger sensor gathers more then vs a smaller sensor??". It appears that no one including yourself believes that so where are you going with this?

was making a statement to those who think just because you got a bigger sensor your getting more light.
Donny

 

[Ysarex]

Larger sensors DO NOT GATHER MORE LIGHT..
if that was true the light meters would have to have a setting to account for large sensors vs small sensors, there is no such setting why? because The sensor size has nothing to do with how much light you get in your image, NONE!!!!
You can keep thinking that but you would be wrong..

I specifically said this: "a larger sensor gathers more total light than a smaller sensor." My words are chosen carefully. I did not say what you screamed.

By your definition which amazingly is correct, "Exposure is : per unit area." Let's get that complete: "In photography, exposure is the amount of light per unit area (the image plane illuminance times the exposure time) reaching a photographic film or electronic image sensor, as determined by shutter speed, lens aperture and scene luminance."

An FX sensor is: 36mm X 24mm = 864mm square. A DX sensor is 23.6mm X 15.6mm = 368mm sqaure.

Expose both sensors to 3 lux sec. per unit area.
Therefore total light gathered by the FX sensor is 3 X 864 = 2,592 total lux sec.
and the total light gathered by the DX sensor is 3 X 368 = 1,104 total lux sec.

3 = 3.
2592 > 1,104.

Both sensors were exposed to the same light intensity per unit area 3 = 3.
The Fx sensor gathered more total light 2592 > 1,104.

I suspect you're having some difficulty with the simple concept that the same intensity spread over a larger area produces a larger volume. Consider this: Place a 12 x 12 inch cookie pan and a 16 x 16 inch cookie pan together out in the rain. Allow them to both collect 1 inch of rainfall. Then pour the water from each into separate containers. Will you have the same volume of water from both or more water from the 16 x 16 inch pan?

If you disagree at all with the above you must present the math that proves otherwise.

Joe

first all let me stress that Exposure is : per unit area, a crop sensor camera gets the same amount of light then a full frame camera does..

now if you think that isn't true then why doesn't any light meter have an entry for sensor size?
meaning you tell the light meter your measuring for a full frame sensor vs a crop sensor? Reason?? Is because it doesn't matter both sensors get the same amount of light..

Exposure is per unit area, if you travel from the state of NY, to RI, once you get to RI will you get less light in RI then you did in NY?
NO..

View attachment 159032

The total unit area of New York is 141,300 square km. The total unit are of Rhode Island is 3,144 square km. Exposure is measured in lux seconds (per unit area). If 3 lux seconds per square km of exposure falls on both New York and Rhode Island then New York will receive a total exposure of 423,900 lux seconds and Rhode Island will receive a total exposure of 9,432 lux seconds.

3 = 3.
423,900 != 9,432.

The significance of those two equations I'm sure the OP will now lucidly explain in photographic terms.

also some say that, Bigger sensors require less resolving power of the lenses to be sharper.

Actually it's just the opposite..
every lens crops out a circle of light, if you use a full frame lens on a crop sensor, the crop sensor is using the center of the full frame lens, which is always the best part of that lens,

kind of cutting the crust off of your bread.

Full frame sensors are always using more of that circle of projection,
every lens drops a circle, the bigger the sensor the more of that circle it's using.

The further out it goes the worst it gets,
and it doesn't matter what lens from a cheap lens

or super expensive , like, leica or zeiss,

the further you go out of the center of the circle of projection the worst the image gets,

and another thing people think that ISO is connected to exposure, that is not true ISO is applied gain, if you don't believe me just look up the word iso invariance,
https://improvephotography.com/34818/iso-invariance/

people think of bigger sensors gathering more light like a window in a room, bigger window opening the shades means more light in the room, then if you open the shades on a smaller windwo,
but Sensors don't work that way,
it's per unit area...
People always things full frame gives you more light then smaller sensors, (NOT TRUE)

You're right! That's not true because people don't always think full frame gives you more light than smaller sensors. OMG! They never did!

People do know that a larger sensor gathers more total light than a smaller sensor which is a different think altogether.

Joe

Donny

 

[KmH]

Oh No! Math?