Starting a Business

JerryPH · Nov 10, 2007

Interesting read. I look forward to seeing your final chocies and how your business starts out.

Go get them and good luck!!

aammoore · Nov 10, 2007

Thanks a million Jerry!

Alex_B · Nov 10, 2007

aammoore said:
Cameras, lenses, lights, flashes, etc... etc..!

What is your experience with all this gear?

JodieO · Nov 10, 2007

Alex_B said:
What is your experience with all this gear?

That would be my question as well.

Can I offer a piece of advice? Before even looking into all this equipment, you really should make sure you are "there" business wise. Have you taken any business classes? Are you undercutting local photogs? (you shouldn't be - it's a recipe for disaster when running a business as you will burn out and not be able to cover your basic costs). What are your goals as far as income? Make sure you are priced accordingly. I see so many portrait and wedding photographers barely make $30,000 a year... I ask - why bother. If I made any less than $75,000 per year, I would hang up my hat. All this is part of working on having a succesful long lasting business.

I HIGHLY recommend contacting your local Small Business Development Center for two reasons - one is to get in where you can take business classes (for free or for barely anything - it's a nonprofit org.) and they will help you with loan options - in fact, they "fight for you" for loan options and going through them can make a world of difference in fees/interest rates you pay. I got a $50,000 loan last year through them, and it was so easy to do being that I am a woman (yes, women have advantages in this area), and was able to open my studio, etc. in an amazing location with the ability to shoot indoors and outdoors.

I will disclaimer though, I do not do weddings... not enough profit vs. time for me... also I don't work weekends. Period. :lol:

Well, please don't take this wrong, but I think this could be very helpful to you as well... I see your avatar which is adorable, but have you really looked into great ways to convert digital files to black and white without getting a "muddy" tone? There are a lot of customers who really hate that muddy look and will comment how horrible digital is when film is much better (when reality, the customers shouldn't have to argue that point as digital black and whites can be kept from being muddy and grey, and can be bright and beautiful.).

Alex_B · Nov 10, 2007

JodieO said:
That would be my question as well.
[...]

Thanks for writing all this... saved me a lot of work since I thought of a similar add-on

Bobby Ironsights · Nov 10, 2007

Big Mike said:
I often recommend the 50mm F1.8 to people because it's cheap and a great lens for that price. However, it is a 'Cheap' lens and I wouldn't count on it too much, for wedding work. I've also heard that it doesn't focus nearly as well as all these other top quality lenses.

I have the plastic fantastic, it's great, but only for manual focus, If a person needs autofocus, in a 35mm, they need the miracle that is USM. :lovey:

Skyhawk · Nov 10, 2007

JodieO said:
Can I offer a piece of advice? Before even looking into all this equipment, you really should make sure you are "there" business wise. Have you taken any business classes? Are you undercutting local photogs? (you shouldn't be - it's a recipe for disaster when running a business as you will burn out and not be able to cover your basic costs). What are your goals as far as income? Make sure you are priced accordingly. I see so many portrait and wedding photographers barely make $30,000 a year... I ask - why bother. If I made any less than $75,000 per year, I would hang up my hat. All this is part of working on having a succesful long lasting business.

Very good and extremely necessary points.

There are a few additional things to consider other than equipment. After all, just as an airplane doesn't a pilot make, nor will photo equipment a professional photographer make.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is credentials. As a retired creative director from a major advertising agency, I dealt with scores upon scores of young, hungry beginning photographers. I looked for two things: Credentials and a portfolio that backed up the credentials.

There is a tremendous difference between having several friends or acquaintances approach you asking if you'd shoot their wedding versus actively going out and pitching such business.

Probably the single best piece of equipment you can have just starting out will be a strong resume/bio sheet--one that will inspire both confidence and interest from prospective/potential clients.

Please understand that I'm approaching your challenge from the Client side--the side I'm most familiar and experienced in, as well as the side that writes the check for your services/product. To that end, I cannot emphasize enough how vital it is for you to manage your expectations honestly and set your goals and objectives realistically.

That is where a brief meeting with your local SBA can prove to be valuable beyond words. Ask them about getting hooked up with SCORE (Service Corps Of Retired Exectuves). It is a fantastic resource.

This is just my opinion only, but as far as some of your questions go, one of the best ways to answer them yourself would be to look for an apprenticeship/assistant job with an established photographer. You'll make some money, build a resume, build a portfolio and be building a professional reputation and network.

Jeff

ironsidephoto · Nov 11, 2007

you'll definitely need an external flash. on camera isn't good enough for weddings. some churches just aren't well lit. period.
check out gary fong's website (garyfong.com?). the lightsphere (or whatever new thing he has out) has saved my life a few times. flash diffuser is a must.

my advice--you'd be better off buying sigma or tamron lenses instead of canon. they're still good quality, and way cheaper. this is important, as you are taking out a loan. more for your money.
the wide angle isn't a must. i thought i'd need it but i don't use it that often if at all.

i use a nikon D200 and it's great for weddings. in my opinion, nikon makes better dslrs but ****ty point and shoots, while canon lacks in the dslr category but makes some amazing point and shoots. i guess that's just an opinion, though.

you won't need backdrops if you're just doing weddings.

JodieO · Nov 11, 2007

I totally would not recommend offbrand lenses. I personally would recommend only investing in "the best" when shooting for customers. I do have a few sigma lenses that I do not use for customers - they are "fun lenses" for me but I only use the following for paid customers... I just don't feel the off brands come close to good Nikon or Canon glass especially when it comes to zooms.

50 mm/1.4
70-200/2.8
17-55/2.8
28-70/2.8
85 mm/1.4

As far as credentials - credentials are a good thing to have BUT.... not everyone with credentials is a good artist when it comes to photography. I've had several "old schoolers" get really nasty with me because I don't have credentials except that I've run a business before, so I have the business end down, and I used to paint portraits and have surrounded myself with art my entire life....

Credentials don't necessarily get you "the eye".

aammoore · Nov 11, 2007

Tremendous advice from you all!

I have been a member of PPA for about two years now, and that has changed my outlook on photography period and what got me to even consider thinking about a business!

I love it! I'm also considering taking their at home courses on photography, and taking the courses from my local college...I have been through SOOO many college courses it's crazy. I'm not quite finished yet, but I do plan on graduating SOMETIME, hopefully soon, with a business degree. So yes, I have thought of that aspect.

I just recently learned about the SBA last week in our area. A friend of mine just opened a print shop, and he used them and said they helped A LOT! I'll see what they can help with. I didn't know that they would help with my schooling.

I do have a pretty good portfolio already, because...as I mentioned before, I worked in a photography studio for almost a year (left due to having a child). I would really like to build my wedding portfolio though. Maybe these two weddings that I have booked already will help and then I'll consider finishing school, before I start.

I know this, I'm not starting tomorrow, and I'm not taking out the loan until I'm 100% sure. But HEY, with God supplying all my needs, I may not even need to take out a loan, because He is MORE than capable of dropping it all in my lap, paid for.

Thanks for everyone's phenomenal advice. You've all been a pleasure.

Anymore?

aammoore · Nov 11, 2007

JodieO said:
Well, please don't take this wrong, but I think this could be very helpful to you as well... I see your avatar which is adorable, but have you really looked into great ways to convert digital files to black and white without getting a "muddy" tone? There are a lot of customers who really hate that muddy look and will comment how horrible digital is when film is much better (when reality, the customers shouldn't have to argue that point as digital black and whites can be kept from being muddy and grey, and can be bright and beautiful.).

Yes, I've looked into this somewhat. This was actually a picture that my husband and I had taken on a cruise.

usayit · Nov 11, 2007

Off topic...

Converting color digital images to a good B&W image is a lot more than just desaturating the image. Do a search on google and you will find several PS techniques and workflows. Experiment and adjust for your own liking.

but

yeh.. I agree.. in the end I usually end up with more pleasing results using traditional wet darkroom.

Skyhawk · Nov 11, 2007

JodieO said:
As far as credentials - credentials are a good thing to have BUT.... not everyone with credentials is a good artist when it comes to photography. I've had several "old schoolers" get really nasty with me because I don't have credentials except that I've run a business before, so I have the business end down, and I used to paint portraits and have surrounded myself with art my entire life....

Credentials don't necessarily get you "the eye".

Believe me, as someone who used to spend endless hours looking over aspiring copywriters', art directors', producers', photographers' and film directors' books, I know that credentials don't "get you the eye."

But what they often will do, is get your work past my administrative assistants and recruiters and onto my desk for consideration.

It's really sad that you've had old-timers get ugly with you. Not sure how old you are, but I know that my own personal philosophy is "we're only as good as the legacies we leave behind." What that means is that my generation should be doing what we can to help your generation succeed and enjoy the work--not getting ugly or snippity simply because you're several decades younger and didn't grow up shooting with nothing more than a Brownie, typing on a Royal manual and only watching three channels of TV on a ten-inch black and white.

Tremendous advice from you all! I have been a member of PPA for about two years now, and that has changed my outlook on photography period and what got me to even consider thinking about a business! I love it! I'm also considering taking their at home courses on photography, and taking the courses from my local college...

I do have a pretty good portfolio already, because...as I mentioned before, I worked in a photography studio for almost a year (left due to having a child). I would really like to build my wedding portfolio though. Maybe these two weddings that I have booked already will help and then I'll consider finishing school, before I start.

Excellent. Get with an SBA rep and start making yourself up a small business plan.

BUT . . . don't concentrate so hard on the business aspect of it all that you sacrifice or lose the creative aspect of the type business you're in.

Go for it, and best of luck.

Jeff

JodieO · Nov 11, 2007

"But what they often will do, is get your work past my administrative assistants and recruiters and onto my desk for consideration."

See... that's why I am glad I own my own business - I don't need a resume or have anyone see my credentials... I just run my business and keep going... although I do get commercial and editorial work that falls in my lap. Nothing like shooting a 15-minute commercial gig that pays me $1400! pretty cool but I maintain everything with portraiture...

"It's really sad that you've had old-timers get ugly with you. Not sure how old you are, but I know that my own personal philosophy is "we're only as good as the legacies we leave behind." What that means is that my generation should be doing what we can to help your generation succeed and enjoy the work--not getting ugly or snippity simply because you're several decades younger and didn't grow up shooting with nothing more than a Brownie, typing on a Royal manual and only watching three channels of TV on a ten-inch black and white."

I'm 32, have an 11 and 8 year old, and a 40-year-old husband, married coming up on 13 years , and a stepdaughter in college... Not all 32-year-olds can say they have been through as much as I have been I am one that will say, I cannot stand when people act like I am a "kid" (I do look younger than I am and have the occasional customer side eye me until they find out how old I am....) or dwell on generation gaps that usually don't exist.... I've had total a-hole "traditional, older" photographers who I can totally run circles around as far as digital photography, and have a very much more successful business than they have, have a big time attitude with me... so I tend to stay clear away from them.

but at any rate... I'm happy where I am in life, and thrilled to be maintaining a business in something that I love... and dang, raking in some amazing cash! When I average about $100/hour or more, I'm happy.

So anyway, I'm guessing you are not much older than my husband if you are looking for early retirement... by all rights, my husband could retire in about 8 years if he so wishes.