Starting Over, Looking at Canon 70D and Nikon D7100

[CuriosityHouse]

Hey everybody. A couple few years ago this forum helped me pull the trigger on a T3i, unfortunately, life and work got in the way and I ended up gifting all my stuff to a friend. So now I'm back and wanting to get back into photography (I was never anything more than a beginner) and I'm looking at purchasing either the 70D or the D7100.

I have no allegiance to any manufacturer, just trying to figure out which camera will be the best for me.

I really like that the D7100 has a motor in the body, allowing more lense options. ( I frequently come into vintage camera equipment due to my business)

I really like that the 70D has a swivel screen for video (just found out we're going to have a baby...video will surely be important)

Other than that, my photography interests are night cityscapes, abandoned stuff, urban exploration type things. Lots of low light. However I also run a vintage/antique store so alot of product photography.

I'd like to keep the total purchase below $2,000.00 And other than the camera & a couple lenses, I'll need a tripod, remote, and probobly a couple books.


Thanks for any help and opinions you can throw my way!

Steve

 

[TCampbell]

Hey everybody. A couple few years ago this forum helped me pull the trigger on a T3i, unfortunately, life and work got in the way and I ended up gifting all my stuff to a friend. So now I'm back and wanting to get back into photography (I was never anything more than a beginner) and I'm looking at purchasing either the 70D or the D7100.

I have no allegiance to any manufacturer, just trying to figure out which camera will be the best for me.

I really like that the D7100 has a motor in the body, allowing more lense options. ( I frequently come into vintage camera equipment due to my business)

This is probably not really a factor (or more accurately... only a factor when comparing two different Nikon bodies). Canon does not (and never did) use in-body focus motors. All lenses have in-lens focus motors.

To put it in different terms:

If you have a D7100, then EVERY Nikon auto-focusing lens will work on your body whether it relies on in-body focus motors vs. lenses that have their own focus motors.
If you have a Canon 70D then EVERY Canon auto-focusing lens will work on your body... because there's no such thing as a Canon auto-focusing lens that expected in-body focus motors.

I really like that the 70D has a swivel screen for video (just found out we're going to have a baby...video will surely be important)

The 70D is unique in it's video capability. It's currently the only DSLR on the market that can provide continuous AF while shooting video that can rely on a phase-detect (very accurate, very fast, and no focus-hunt) auto-focus. Other cameras offer a form of continuous auto-focus, but they rely on contrast-detection which is not as intelligent or fast as phase-detetion. Contrast-detect AF systems usually have to do "focus hunt" to iterate their way to accurate focus. Phase detect systems do not.

Other than that, my photography interests are night cityscapes, abandoned stuff, urban exploration type things. Lots of low light. However I also run a vintage/antique store so alot of product photography.

I'd like to keep the total purchase below $2,000.00 And other than the camera & a couple lenses, I'll need a tripod, remote, and probobly a couple books.

Thanks for any help and opinions you can throw my way!

Steve

If you're using a tripod for those low-light photos, then you're golden... if the subject isn't moving and the camera isn't moving then you can take all the time you need to capture a nice clean exposure. The need to use crank ISO to maintain fast enough shutter speeds for hand-held photographer won't matter. In "urban exploration", dynamic range of the sensor will be an advantage and here I think the Nikon D7100 will have the edge.

In the end, you are unlikely to make a "wrong" decision because both cameras are extremely good.

 

[jaomul]

The Nikon doesn't really have that much more lens options than the Canon, all Canon lenses in last 20 plus years have inbuilt motors, there are some older Nikon lenses that you can use but you probably won't buy a modern camera to manually focus as this is hard on cameras that are not fullframe due size of viewfinder.

I have a d7100, I had a good few Canon cameras. On a good day it be hard to say which is better. However I do find that when I don't nail a shot in camera the Nikon files are better to edit. If you shoot raw this matters, if only jpeg not as much.

If the raw/ jpeg thing doesn't matter to you the 70d touchscreen and video controls on the Canon are advantageous, if only photographs are your thing I think the d7100 is the better photographers camera. Just an opinion

 

[CuriosityHouse]

In the end, you are unlikely to make a "wrong" decision because both cameras are extremely good.

Thank you for clarifying the issue of lenses for me. And in general, thank you for all the information in your post. Greatly appreciated!

If the raw/ jpeg thing doesn't matter to you the 70d touchscreen and video controls on the Canon are advantageous, if only photographs are your thing I think the d7100 is the better photographers camera. Just an opinion

Thanks for your first hand experience with both manufacturers as well.

I was afraid that this might be a "no wrong choice" kind of thing, with neither camera head and above the other. I wish I could melt the two together and get the video capabilities of the 70D into the 7100. Then it would be a nobrainer. My good friend shoots Nikon = Free lens borrowing. Hahaha.

 

[TCampbell]

Just to clarify... I'm a Canon shooter, so I don't have the first-hand experience with the Nikon gear. I'm not going to tell you my brand is better -- that has little to do with why I'd choose a camera because when you go through feature for feature, generally one is never "the best"... it really boils down to the way YOU will use the gear and which of those features you'll use more. Once a photographer gets "invested" in a brand, you tend to own not just a body, but a number of expensive lenses. For many of us, the cost of all this other gear is far more than the cost of the body. As such, it usually doesn't make sense to try to own two different brands (though some people do own both).

I say this, because I want to make sure you understand that I'm not advocating for either brand just because I own one of them and not the other. They're BOTH extremely good.

In the end, what you get out of the camera is much more dependent on your skills... I can buy the best violin in the world, but as I don't know how to play a violin, it'll still sound like I'm torturing cats. It's up to you to exploit the instrument to create beautiful music. Purchasing a "better" violin will not somehow magically imbue me with musical talent. In the end the camera is just a tool and will not magically give us photographic talent (if only it were so easy.)

As for the dynamic range. If good dynamic range is important then one nuance to be aware of is that cameras yield their best dynamic range when they're shooting at low ISO values... base ISO is the best. As you increase ISO sensitivity, you lose dynamic range (generally true of all cameras). In fact... as you increase ISO, some cameras will trade places as to which camera has better dynamic range (e.g. camera A may have better dynamic range at base ISO, but camera B may steal the lead at high ISO.) If you are trying to squeeze the best dynamic range out of the camera then you would also want to use a tripod so they could use that lowest ISO without fear of the consequences of the slow shutter speeds that may be necessary in dark environments.

So I'm not going by first-hand experience... Nikon sensors tend to have slightly better dynamic range than Canon sensors (at base ISO). I'm going by test data.

A popular (but unfortunately misleading) site for this data is DxO and the DxO Mark scores. I avoid these ... not because they're wrong, but because they are not useful. DxO shows test "scores"... not test "data". What you REALLY want to see is the data. It would be like a teacher giving you an assignment and telling you that single assignment is worth 25% of your grade at the end of the semester. The DxO "score" is basically that grade at the end of the semester but what you don't know is what went into contributing to that final grade. They consider this their secret sauce and they won't divulge the recipe.

Other publications will either show you their test data, or graphs of the data, or actual images taken as part of their testing and you can evaluate with your own eyes how you feel they perform. If only you could see the DxO "data" then you may or may not end up agreeing with their final "score" -- but DxO doesn't give you that option. For this reason, I avoid them.

dpreview tends to give very good samples and data on their camera test. Popular Photography depicts graphs showing the actual data from their tests. I feel both these are more useful than just seeing final scores.

Sometimes the difference is data are very tiny... so tiny that one would not notice based on casual observation and careful measuring instruments are needed to detect the difference. Consider how much weight these differences will mean to you.

 

[CuriosityHouse]

Just to clarify...

TCampbell, I didn't get the impression that you were pulling for one brand or another at all, and I greatly appreciate your unbiased opinions which as you well know are hard to come by in any Nikon vs Canon discussions.

I've read a lot of threads that you comment in, and I greatly appreciate your opinion.

Thanks again!

 

[CAP]

Well have a buddies that shoot Nikon and Canon and are both the top company's in terms of equipment. If you where keeping score then canon is winning at the moment in terms of state of the art equipment, But that's just until Nikon puts out a competing body then it will switch then bounce back and forth,.


I been using Canon for quite some time now and i have been very happy with all of there lenses and bodies.

I will throw my 2 cents in and say go with Canon !

 

[jaomul]

I'll make it a little harder with a few examples- none are great photos but they compare the d7100 with the 7d(which is supposedly very similar in image quality to the 70d)

D7100 @ iso 6400
spidey by jaomul, on Flickr

7D @ iso 6400
caves grotta di nettuno (9) by jaomul, on Flickr

d7100 @ iso 200
shimmer by jaomul, on Flickr

7d @ iso 100
Mullinhassig Waterfall by jaomul, on Flickr

As you can see both do very well at low iso and at 6400, while definetely the quality is less, its at a level that could only be dreamed of a few years ago- both are good choices, but having a friend that has nikon should pull you a certain way

 

[CuriosityHouse]

As you can see both do very well at low iso and at 6400, while definetely the quality is less, its at a level that could only be dreamed of a few years ago- both are good choices, but having a friend that has nikon should pull you a certain way

Hmm...is it wrong/weird that I like the photos taken with the 7D better than the 7100? Haven't looked into the 7D at all.

 

[goodguy]

Both are good cameras so you cant go wrong with either.
To make it simple the 70D has the advantage in video and and sport shooting.
Nikon will have advantage in low light and dynamic range.
My vote would be for the Nikon D7100, I dont do video on my camera and low light performance and dynamic range is very important for me.
For sport shooting the D7100 is plenty good for my need, more then I will ever need anyways.

 

[robbins.photo]

Ok, just real quick and in general - if your shooting style or subject matter is such that you need to fire off a very long burst of continous shots in RAW, or if video is a big concern, I'd probably take a look at the Canon.

If your primary concern is image quality, dynamic range, or if your shooting a lot of telephoto where you'll most likely be cropping your pictures often, or if you find yourself shooting in less than ideal lighting conditions fairly often, I'd take a look at the Nikon.

Also for comparing sample photos be aware that there is a ton of stuff that comes into play other than just the camera body. The lens used, the photographers skill, etc all can make a huge difference in the final quality of the shot so looking at sample photos of one particular camera and trying to compare it to another isn't a method I generally recommend because it relies on a lot of things other than the camera body that can really have a huge impact on the final results.

I think your better off comparing scores at outfits like DXOmark. Decide which features are important to you first, and that generally gives you a much better idea as to which camera will suit your needs better. Also, I do not recommend you try to base your judgement off of which camera "feels" better or has "better" menus, work with any camera for a little while and you'll get used to how it feels and how the menu works.

 

[jaomul]

As you can see both do very well at low iso and at 6400, while definetely the quality is less, its at a level that could only be dreamed of a few years ago- both are good choices, but having a friend that has nikon should pull you a certain way

Hmm...is it wrong/weird that I like the photos taken with the 7D better than the 7100? Haven't looked into the 7D at all.

No not weird at all. That's the way it is. The 70d should be similar if not slightly better than the 7d. I would advise not to judge on them few vastly different samples and maybe to look at Flickr and check out the group's of photos for each camera also. Lots say that not comparing like photos for like in a set up environment doesn't yield accurate results, but real pictures beat charts in my book anyday

 

[fooby]

The 7D and 70D are pretty much identical spec wise now - hence why I anticipate a 7D MkII very soon. Might be worth waiting for?

 

[Derrel]

Have you seen this 30+ minute video comparing the two cameras?

 

[JacaRanda]

As you can see both do very well at low iso and at 6400, while definetely the quality is less, its at a level that could only be dreamed of a few years ago- both are good choices, but having a friend that has nikon should pull you a certain way

Hmm...is it wrong/weird that I like the photos taken with the 7D better than the 7100? Haven't looked into the 7D at all.

No it's not wrong. It's just how you feel.

You have gotten some really good advice already in this thread.

I would differ with Mr. Rob Benz only in regards to the how it feels stuff. Even though you may get used to something, you still may not like how it feels. Getting used to something even if it feels weird/different/uncomfortable works for me; but would absolutely drive my wife crazy and more than likely keep her from using it (much).

If you get the chance, go drive a salesperson crazy by playing with each camera model you are considering.