Stops

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Unless you are shooting with strobes, what is your purpose for shooting full manual?

I'm also curious to why as well.

You have full control of the camera and settings

Yes, that is what full manual means. However, you are taking my question out of context. I think everyone here knows that Manual gives full control (in many cases, at the cost of quickness ). However, why has the OP chose that setting (ie. WHY do they feel the need for full control all of the time if it has the potential to be detrimental to their shooting experience given their clear lack of understanding?)

 

[kundalini]

Why are you so intent in NOT shooting in Manual and discouraging others? Why do you suggest all newbies should use a semi-auto shooting mode? Why do you feel it is a slower method that is detrimental to their shooting experience? Don't you think there is a benefit in learning to shoot in Manual? Don't you think that, given enough time, this may actually help clear up their misunderstanding? Is anything that someone else does with their camera harm you in any way? Why do you care?

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Because I am trying to help, not set people down a path of discouragement. You have to learn to crawl before you walk. Sure there is a benefit to learning manual. It seems that for the sake of argument that you have disregarded much of what I said. My original question with the strobe example shows that. Its one thing to take time practicing in manual and another to relegate yourself to ONLY shooting in manual. You also ignored my rhetorical question about manual with no understanding being pointless. I guess all newbies should just dive in and shoot full manual. Then they can come on here and we can try to explain why the shot of Jr.'s baptism came out as a nice solid black frame and they missed out on a once in a lifetime great shot, but hey, atleast they learned something from Kundalinis school of hard knocks.

 

[Vtec44]

Unless you are shooting with strobes, what is your purpose for shooting full manual?

I'm also curious to why as well.

You have full control of the camera and settings

That's the obvious. I'm curious to see if there are other advantages. I only use it when I'm shooting macro or with strobe lights. The rest is often 1/2 auto.

 

[gsgary]

I'm also curious to why as well.

You have full control of the camera and settings

Yes, that is what full manual means. However, you are taking my question out of context. I think everyone here knows that Manual gives full control (in many cases, at the cost of quickness ). However, why has the OP chose that setting (ie. WHY do they feel the need for full control all of the time if it has the potential to be detrimental to their shooting experience given their clear lack of understanding?)

Much quicker for me, when i'm shooting sports it's easy to adjust settings as i track the action

 

[gsgary]

I'm also curious to why as well.

You have full control of the camera and settings

That's the obvious. I'm curious to see if there are other advantages. I only use it when I'm shooting macro or with strobe lights. The rest is often 1/2 auto.

For me it's quicker, but i'm not a beginner

 

[Mike_E]

I know what f/stops are... but what are people referring to when they say they are going to underexpose ambient light by a stop? Or when someone says they need a stop of more light?

Two different questions, the second one has been answered amply. The answer to the first is that they are talking about a variation of "dragging the shutter". You can read about it here.. http://neilvn.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/3-dragging-the-shutter/


HTH

 

[Overread]

Speed and control over tools is always partly the inherent speed of the tool/control option in itself and that of the user.

For some the control and speed of manual mode is all they need to shoot what they shoot in the style that they are accustomed to. They are able to change the settings fast because of experience of using the tool they use; experience newer users simply won't have until they've shot a lot more.
Heck myself I can change manual mode settings on my one wheeled 400D faster than on my 2 wheeled 7D - in time I expect that to change, but for now experience and familiarity has the 400D to the advantage of several years. The same is true for many new to the hobby - just that those newest are also new to the exposure manipulation itself - thus things can run slower still in some cases.


As for the modes - again this depends a lot on shooting style and subject - several good examples have also been outlined as to specific common situations where select modes have the advantage over the others.


In the end my advice is two fold:
1) Its not the mode is the settings - what mode you use does not matter one bit, what matters is that when you come to press the shutter you've got the best settings possible in the shortest amount of time for your given subject and situation.

2) Don't learn one mode - learn them all (within reason). Aperture and shutter priority along side manual mode. Learn to use and when to use all 3 for your own shooting. Once you know how to use the mode you are then able to make the informed choice between them - otherwise your choice of mode is dictated only by your inexperience of the other modes - the other choices.



Myself I learnt most through aperture priority mode - letting the camera balance the shutter speed to my aperture and ISO whilst making full use of the meter and exposure compensation. Some follow that path - others learn all in manual mode and fewer learn in shutter priority. Don't make any difference which way you come at it since you've still got to learn the exposure triangle for either mode.

 

[kundalini]

Because I am trying to help, not set people down a path of discouragement. You have to learn to crawl before you walk.

If that is the case, then IMO, it is disingenuous to suggest to a newbie that Manual mode is only to be used when their more advanced or experienced. We're still only talking about three things here.... Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO. Regardless of which shooting a person choose to begin their learning experience with, these three things must become learned to the point it becomes second nature as to why one setting over the other is used to capture the shot you envision. You may still miss the exposure, but you'll understand what would've been the better choice. Likewise, you can look at the exposure and do a Homer..... D'Oh and realize what you forgot to check before the shot. I would hazard a guess that someone just starting out and shooting in Manual will have a greater understanding of the exposure triangle than another person with the same mental faculties starting off in Aperture mode. Granted, person A would probably have more duff shots in the early days than person B, but that is what practice is all about.

Do you practice when you've got to get that (I love this term) "Once in a lifetime shot"? Hell no, if you're not confident enough, put the damn camera on auto-pilot and let it rock. You practice when you're alone with your own thoughts and just like a music student, you run the scales up and down and up and down and up.... I think you may get my point. If a newbie doesn't put in the time and energy, they will stay at an acceptable to above average level for their immediate circle, but mediocre to below average on one of these photo forums. Even a blind pig will find an acorn. You gotta pay yer dues brother.

Me, I couldn't give a rat's ass what shooting mode anyone chooses. But I think it is a disservice to discourage.

I think this has gone further than I expected and apologies for the verbal diarrhea, but blame it on Agent Drex.

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

I shoot 100% manual. So to stop down an exposure, would I need to underexpose all three? (ISO, Shutter, Aperture)

Because I am trying to help, not set people down a path of discouragement. You have to learn to crawl before you walk.

If that is the case, then IMO, it is disingenuous to suggest to a newbie that Manual mode is only to be used when their more advanced or experienced. We're still only talking about three things here.... Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO. Regardless of which shooting a person choose to begin their learning experience with, these three things must become learned to the point it becomes second nature as to why one setting over the other is used to capture the shot you envision. You may still miss the exposure, but you'll understand what would've been the better choice. Likewise, you can look at the exposure and do a Homer..... D'Oh and realize what you forgot to check before the shot. I would hazard a guess that someone just starting out and shooting in Manual will have a greater understanding of the exposure triangle than another person with the same mental faculties starting off in Aperture mode. Granted, person A would probably have more duff shots in the early days than person B, but that is what practice is all about.

Do you practice when you've got to get that (I love this term) "Once in a lifetime shot"? Hell no, if you're not confident enough, put the damn camera on auto-pilot and let it rock. You practice when you're alone with your own thoughts and just like a music student, you run the scales up and down and up and down and up.... I think you may get my point. If a newbie doesn't put in the time and energy, they will stay at an acceptable to above average level for their immediate circle, but mediocre to below average on one of these photo forums. Even a blind pig will find an acorn. You gotta pay yer dues brother.

Me, I couldn't give a rat's ass what shooting mode anyone chooses. But I think it is a disservice to discourage.

I think this has gone further than I expected and apologies for the verbal diarrhea, but blame it on Agent Drex.

No apology needed. A debate is good as long as everyone can walk away from it with out some sort of hatred. I can agree to disagree and you are right, it doesn't matter to us what anyone else shoots. The final thing I will say on the topic, is that all of this was brought on by the quote from the OP above which did not sound to me like someone "practicing," but more like someone trying to put the cart before the horse. Prior to that quote I had used AV and Tv as illustrations, not so much to say they are the only things to shoot, but merely to make it more clear as to when you would adjust one and not the other. Av and Tv modes are perfect examples of that and in my opinion will help someone to understand better since they can focus on ONE variable changing and sort of formulating an association with those variables ( speed and dof assuming ISO is not set to auto. ) At the end of the day though it doesn't matter what mode you shoot in as long as you get the shot you want. I would just stress that there is no shame in taking baby steps. A building is only as strong as its foundation.

 

[SabrinaO]

Just to try and help you understand more, when you are in your semi-auto modes ( like Av and Tv mode on Canon, and uhhh I think S and A?? modes on Nikon??? ) if you are in lets say Shutter Priority, if you adjust the exposure comp for an underexposure, the camera will stop down the lens because it knows you want the shutter speed to be what you chose. If in Aperture priority mode, it will speed up the shutter. Both would be done by "Underexposing" on the exposure comp wheel, but would be achieved by different settings.

And you need a spelling COURSE as soon as possible. Hmmm should I just ASSume you can't spell???I shoot 100% manual. So to stop down an exposure, would I need to underexpose all three? (ISO, Shutter, Aperture)

You need to go on a photography coarse as soon as possible

And you need a spelling COURSE as soon as possible! Hmmm maybe I should just ASSume you can't spell?

 

[SabrinaO]

If you want to stop down your exposure (I'll interpret that as underexposing, measured in stops), that does not imply stopping down on the entire exposure triangle. Let's say that you have

f/8
1/200th
ISO 200

One stop less light could be accomplished by

f/11
I/200th
ISO 200

f/8
1/400th
ISO 200

f/8
1/200th
ISO 100

Get it? When "counting stops", it's all about halving one thing and double the other. When in manual, you set your ISO and then, for example, your needed aperture (DOP). You then scroll until you get that dot in the middle of the thing you're metering off = "correct exposure". To underexposure the image, simply choose a shutter speed a bit faster than what your camera says to be "correct". Example:

your camera says 1/125th of a second, but you want to underexposure by two stops (perhaps you're taking a sunset shot), you scroll your dot thingy until you've got a shutter soeed of 1/30th of a second = two stops less light = four times less light than 1/125th.

Once you get that "AHHHHHHHH, I GET IT NOOOOW, OFC!!!", everything falls into place. Well, not everything, but quite much.

Thanks for this! Especially what is highlighted in bold! Listen... I know how to expose a picture... and I know all about the exposure triangle... I just didn't know what people meant when they say "I need stop down", or "I need to overexpose by a stop". So now i know its not the whole triangle, its just one element of!

 

[Kerbouchard]

If you want to stop down your exposure (I'll interpret that as underexposing, measured in stops), that does not imply stopping down on the entire exposure triangle. Let's say that you have

f/8
1/200th
ISO 200

One stop less light could be accomplished by

f/11
I/200th
ISO 200

f/8
1/400th
ISO 200

f/8
1/200th
ISO 100

Get it? When "counting stops", it's all about halving one thing and double the other. When in manual, you set your ISO and then, for example, your needed aperture (DOP). You then scroll until you get that dot in the middle of the thing you're metering off = "correct exposure". To underexposure the image, simply choose a shutter speed a bit faster than what your camera says to be "correct". Example:

your camera says 1/125th of a second, but you want to underexposure by two stops (perhaps you're taking a sunset shot), you scroll your dot thingy until you've got a shutter soeed of 1/30th of a second = two stops less light = four times less light than 1/125th.

Once you get that "AHHHHHHHH, I GET IT NOOOOW, OFC!!!", everything falls into place. Well, not everything, but quite much.

Since this was quoted and liked by the OP, I guess I do need to mention one little thing. Some of the shutter speed changes are actually going the wrong direction. For instance, a shutter speed of 1/30th is definitely not less light than 1/125th. Just sayin'.

 

[Compaq]

Yea, I saw that but promptly corrected it Sometimes these things clutter in my mind, but only the shutter speeds It proves that whilst I may understand it, it's not second nature to me yet.

 

[shmne]

I really don't even understand how there is a debate about manual versus semi-auto and auto firing modes. Let me sum it up for everyone all fast like.

1. All beginners should learn on full manual- there is no advantage to learning in a semi-auto mode as pretending something doesn't exist does not help you learn about it better.

2. Semi-auto modes do one important thing - they alleviate the stress of worrying about one setting so that you can focus on the event at hand.

3. Full manual does one important thing - it gives you complete creative control fast and effectively.

Personally I very rarely ever need to shoot in semi-auto modes. About 80% of my images are creative and require me adjusting settings to a point that the camera could not know what I want. The other 20%? I still don't use semi-auto modes just because I don't like the restrictions it puts on you. Not being able to adjust something simply tweaks me out and bugs me. However if the situation is high stress and forces me to change settings often, I will use semi-auto so that I can just get the image right and not worry about it.

Sorry for not pertaining to the topic at all, however this debate irks me as there really is absolutely no debate on this matter. The fact is you can use any mode you want at any time, there is no correct answer or wrong answer. There is only the truth about what each mode does best.