Struggling with LED lamps and DOF...

[Mr_Chris]

I explained it earlier. Shoot the product against a dark background and then remove the background in post process.

Ouch! ok i will try that as well

 

[tirediron]

I explained it earlier. Shoot the product against a dark background and then remove the background in post process.

Why add extra steps? Why not shoot it against the correct background to begin with? I don't dispute that it's easy to swap out a monochrome background, but if you can save yourself the step, why not?

OP: Since it seems you essentially want a 'high-key' (Bright, even, shadowless) look to these, then here's how I would approach it. First, you're going to need different gear. Two LED panels won't cut it except for the smallest items. Start by getting the right colour blue sweep and set it up essentially the way you have above, but increase the separation between the item and the background. I would probably also use a clear, Lucite stand to elevate the item as well. Use two lights to cross-light (left light illuminates the right side, and vice-versa) the background. Place those lights so that they are about even with the item, and then use two lights close in with large-ish modifiers to evenly light the product; 45 degrees either side of lens axis and angled down at about 45 degrees. Some small bits of card in white and black will serve as flags and reflectors to fill in or remove light from small areas as needed.

 

[Mr_Chris]

I explained it earlier. Shoot the product against a dark background and then remove the background in post process.

Why add extra steps? Why not shoot it against the correct background to begin with? I don't dispute that it's easy to swap out a monochrome background, but if you can save yourself the step, why not?

OP: Since it seems you essentially want a 'high-key' (Bright, even, shadowless) look to these, then here's how I would approach it. First, you're going to need different gear. Two LED panels won't cut it except for the smallest items. Start by getting the right colour blue sweep and set it up essentially the way you have above, but increase the separation between the item and the background. I would probably also use a clear, Lucite stand to elevate the item as well. Use two lights to cross-light (left light illuminates the right side, and vice-versa) the background. Place those lights so that they are about even with the item, and then use two lights close in with large-ish modifiers to evenly light the product; 45 degrees either side of lens axis and angled down at about 45 degrees. Some small bits of card in white and black will serve as flags and reflectors to fill in or remove light from small areas as needed.

Thanks John, interesting reading - i will skip the blue backdrop as im not convinced it would remain a consistent colour, plus we sometimes need the background cut out for other markets outside the UK. Are you saying the LED's are a waste of time? this is my first time using them and im not impressed at all - as you say they are better for smaller items or video work im guessing...my managers were keen on them as there is much less fire risk if left on over the weekend / someone knocks them over by accident etc. Can you suggest what kind of lighting would suit these products better? I will also have to shoot black rubber parts plus stainless steel and chrome plated pieces up to 1 metre in length at times. So two lights on the backdrop and another two lights on the subject? I was considering an extra lamp to hang overhead to throw light across the top of the parts to catch rims etc......

 

[tirediron]

I would go for inexpensive strobes such as Godox, Neewer, etc. These aren't high-end units, but as long you're careful and aren't shooting 500 full-power pops a day, they should be fine. While it seems counter-intuitive to many, using strobed light makes everything much, much easier, and once you get over the initial learning curve (one day of practice and you will be fine), you'll wonder how you did anything without them.

Shooting reflective metal such as chrome, nickel or polished SS can be very challenging however due to the highly reflective nature of the surface (especially round).

 

[Mr_Chris]

I would go for inexpensive strobes such as Godox, Neewer, etc. These aren't high-end units, but as long you're careful and aren't shooting 500 full-power pops a day, they should be fine. While it seems counter-intuitive to many, using strobed light makes everything much, much easier, and once you get over the initial learning curve (one day of practice and you will be fine), you'll wonder how you did anything without them.

Shooting reflective metal such as chrome, nickel or polished SS can be very challenging however due to the highly reflective nature of the surface (especially round).

Yes i was considering strobes - i have battery powered off camera flashes at home but wasnt convinced this would be workable due to unreliable power source.
I found these for example:
GODOX 250DI Photo Studio Strobe Flash Light 250W 220V Lighting Lamp Head 【IE】

would i need some kind of soft boxes / diffusion to go with these? or can i shoot with them straight like a flashgun? you discussed 4 lights - im guessing that means 4 strobes? Would have been nice to make SOME kind of use of the LED as i dont think we can return them now...

I am not sure the flash would be allowed as the mezzanine is above the area where a 100 people are assembling parts and i think it could prove too distracting...i guess if that is the best solution i could ask the powers that be to put some black-out curtains up in the corner to help for example...hmm food for thought - thankyou!

 

[tirediron]

You will definitely want modifiers; shooting bare-tube is not appropriate. I would look for something in the area of a 30" softobx, and ideally one that has double diffusion (an extra, internal diffusion layer as well as the main face). It's unlikely that people will be bothered by the strobes once you have the modifiers on.

 

[unpopular]

otherwise you're battling the laws of physics, and unless you know someone the rest of us don't, that's a battle you can't win.

Scheimpflug.

While in the digital age of tilt means making things blurry, the true advantage, at least in my opinion, is making things sharp by "reversing" the 'make everything look like a blurry miniatures' gimmick. Perhaps this is beyond the budget or skill level of the OP; though this is the "correct" way to handle this situation.

There are, of course, a few tilt/shift lenses, some of which can be found for under $1000, such as the Samyang and Russian-made options, or pre-owned older T/S Nikkor lenses. Because you're in studio, compatibility shouldn't be a issue provided that it can physically mount. The Samyang is probably your best option and provides ample tilt.

There are other options, such as t/s bellows systems from Nikon, Minolta or Contax, as well as a number of chinese-built SLR adapters for view cameras. Though these would exclude the use of anything wider than 135mm at the shortest.

Stay away from toys like Lens Baby or weird "plunger" type adapters. If it's made out of plastic, it will get only in your way.

 

[unpopular]

You will definitely want modifiers; shooting bare-tube is not appropriate. I would look for something in the area of a 30" softobx, and ideally one that has double diffusion (an extra, internal diffusion layer as well as the main face). It's unlikely that people will be bothered by the strobes once you have the modifiers on.

Or get a 30" panel.

 

[weepete]

Oh this is just a link to an image - can you send me a link to the actual calculator please? its the best one ive seen so far...

Sure, sorry I just took a screen shot with my phone. That one is the RG depth of field calculator, I don't think it's the best out there right now being a bit clunky and others have a better interface with no ads. But here you go

DOF Calculator – Android Apps on Google Play

That new setup looks better as you've got a larger camera to subject distance.

 

[Mr_Chris]

You will definitely want modifiers; shooting bare-tube is not appropriate. I would look for something in the area of a 30" softobx, and ideally one that has double diffusion (an extra, internal diffusion layer as well as the main face). It's unlikely that people will be bothered by the strobes once you have the modifiers on.

Would you mind giving your opinion on this setup please? seems to good to be true - the price isnt the most important thing for the company but i was also considering this one for my own use at home for ebay photos etc....
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neewer-Pro...1_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YRXZJQR2TSFNXFVCXX4V

 

[tirediron]

Those will be fine for light use; they're cheap, consumer units, but as long as you don't run them at full power, all day, every day, and are careful when moving them, tightening clamps, etc, they should do the job.

 

[Mr_Chris]

Those will be fine for light use; they're cheap, consumer units, but as long as you don't run them at full power, all day, every day, and are careful when moving them, tightening clamps, etc, they should do the job.

Thankyou! - how about the 250W output of each light? is that good? medium? poor? I'm a complete beginner when it comes to strobes...

 

[astroNikon]

Would you mind giving your opinion on this setup please? seems to good to be true - the price isnt the most important thing for the company but i was also considering this one for my own use at home for ebay photos etc....
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neewer-Pro...1_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YRXZJQR2TSFNXFVCXX4V

Just be aware I think those give a blueish color so you'll have to deal with customizing your white balance.

 

[tirediron]

Would you mind giving your opinion on this setup please? seems to good to be true - the price isnt the most important thing for the company but i was also considering this one for my own use at home for ebay photos etc....
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neewer-Pro...1_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YRXZJQR2TSFNXFVCXX4V

Just be aware I think those give a blueish color so you'll have to deal with customizing your white balance.

Good to know; colour-casting is a definite problem with lower-end gear, but it's generally easily fixed in post. As for the output, 250w/s is plenty for the work you're doing. I often do 2-3 light full-body portraits using only a single 200 w/s power pack.

 

[Mr_Chris]

Brilliant - thanks again guys - hope to come back with something better shot with flashguns or strobes sometime soon