Tax Dollars at Work

[Ysarex89 83]

Saint Louis making progress with ADA compliance program.

Joe

 

[tirediron]

ADA?

 

[Ysarex89 83]

ADA?

Americans with Disabilities Act. Doesn't apply to you Canadians. The city is required to make the curbs wheelchair accessible. Arguably they've gone a little overboard in this case.

Joe

 

[bribrius]

ADA?

Americans with Disabilities Act. Doesn't apply to you Canadians. The city is required to make the curbs wheelchair accessible. Arguably they've gone a little overboard in this case.

Joe

it goes good with the sign too nice catch

 

[JonA_CT]

Oy. At least it's something required. Our city has gone around spending millions of dollars to put in granite curbs on every street. I mean -- it's 40% grant funded, so it's completely worth it, right?

 

[Derrel]

ADA?

Americans with Disabilities Act. Doesn't apply to you Canadians. The city is required to make the curbs wheelchair accessible. Arguably they've gone a little overboard in this case.

Joe

I spent 17 years married to a woman who became paralyzed (C-6/C-7) about a year after we got married. She uses a power chair to this day. Wheelchair curb cuts like this are installed because in many jurisdictions across the USA, contractors who build houses often need no permit to put in sidewalks, as is the case in St. Louis, Missouri.
Residential Construction

A little overboard? This is a program that disabled people really count on, so they can get their wheelchairs onto sidewalks. This is an example of something the federal government decided to do to ensure that, when sidewalks are built, that wheelchair users can actually get ON to the sidewalks which will eventually be built, in many cases, without building permits.

A little overboard? Tell it to my disabled ex-wife. MANY have been the times we've gone to some place, only to find that a privately-built sidewalk ended on a 4- to 5-inch drop straight off a curb. Which is a perfect way to DUMP OUT a wheelchair user from a power chair that might very well have an undercarriage bolt that protrudes straight down, from the bottom of a 300 to 385 pound power wheelchair, so that an automatic lock-down system for their van can allow them mobility.

MOST of the people who use power wheelchairs are low-level quadriplegics, with very limited hand function.

A little overboard? Ever seen a woman cry like a baby after going on a walk and reaching a section end of a long (typically road-side) sidewalk that ends with a 4- or 5- or 6- or even a 7- or 8-inch curb with a straight drop off? and then needing to turn back around, and waste precious battery power? I have. In four different states across the USA.

A little overboard? Ever gone to Newark New Jersey, near the Rutgers campus area, where ancient SLATE sidewalks have no curb cuts? My wife went there after she was disabled and was studying for (and earning) her master's degree in research psychology, and could not move around much of the surrounding area's sidewalks because they had no curb cuts.

Not being disabled, but able-bodied, you have absolutely NO idea how hurtful your attitude is. Yes, tax dollars at work. At work to help the disabled move around the neighborhood safely, on the sidewalks--once they are built by non-permitted, private contractors, who often do not even make any ADA compliance effort at all.

 

[Dave442]

Usually it's a beautiful picture and a funny story by Derrel, this time it was a funny picture and a beautiful story by Derrel.

 

[Ysarex89 83]

ADA?

Americans with Disabilities Act. Doesn't apply to you Canadians. The city is required to make the curbs wheelchair accessible. Arguably they've gone a little overboard in this case.

Joe

I spent 17 years married to a woman who became paralyzed (C-6/C-7) about a year after we got married. She uses a power chair to this day. Wheelchair curb cuts like this are installed because in many jurisdictions across the USA, contractors who build houses often need no permit to put in sidewalks, as is the case in St. Louis, Missouri.
Residential Construction

A little overboard? This is a program that disabled people really count on, so they can get their wheelchairs onto sidewalks. This is an example of something the federal government decided to do to ensure that, when sidewalks are built, that wheelchair users can actually get ON to the sidewalks which will eventually be built, in many cases, without building permits.

A little overboard? Tell it to my disabled ex-wife. MANY have been the times we've gone to some place, only to find that a privately-built sidewalk ended on a 4- to 5-inch drop straight off a curb. Which is a perfect way to DUMP OUT a wheelchair user from a power chair that might very well have an undercarriage bolt that protrudes straight down, from the bottom of a 300 to 385 pound power wheelchair, so that an automatic lock-down system for their van can allow them mobility.

MOST of the people who use power wheelchairs are low-level quadriplegics, with very limited hand function.

A little overboard? Ever seen a woman cry like a baby after going on a walk and reaching a section end of a long (typically road-side) sidewalk that ends with a 4- or 5- or 6- or even a 7- or 8-inch curb with a straight drop off? and then needing to turn back around, and waste precious battery power? I have. In four different states across the USA.

A little overboard? Ever gone to Newark New Jersey, near the Rutgers campus area, where ancient SLATE sidewalks have no curb cuts? My wife went there after she was disabled and was studying for (and earning) her master's degree in research psychology, and could not move around much of the surrounding area's sidewalks because they had no curb cuts.

Not being disabled, but able-bodied, you have absolutely NO idea how hurtful your attitude is. Yes, tax dollars at work. At work to help the disabled move around the neighborhood safely, on the sidewalks--once they are built by non-permitted, private contractors, who often do not even make any ADA compliance effort at all.

I fully support the ADA and wish it would do more than it does. I've been involved with programs to help people in wheelchairs. I was the first in St. Louis to modify a campus darkroom to permit wheelchair use of an enlarger. No offense intended -- it's a ramp without sidewalks.

Joe

 

[bribrius]

ADA?

Americans with Disabilities Act. Doesn't apply to you Canadians. The city is required to make the curbs wheelchair accessible. Arguably they've gone a little overboard in this case.

Joe

I spent 17 years married to a woman who became paralyzed (C-6/C-7) about a year after we got married. She uses a power chair to this day. Wheelchair curb cuts like this are installed because in many jurisdictions across the USA, contractors who build houses often need no permit to put in sidewalks, as is the case in St. Louis, Missouri.
Residential Construction

A little overboard? This is a program that disabled people really count on, so they can get their wheelchairs onto sidewalks. This is an example of something the federal government decided to do to ensure that, when sidewalks are built, that wheelchair users can actually get ON to the sidewalks which will eventually be built, in many cases, without building permits.

A little overboard? Tell it to my disabled ex-wife. MANY have been the times we've gone to some place, only to find that a privately-built sidewalk ended on a 4- to 5-inch drop straight off a curb. Which is a perfect way to DUMP OUT a wheelchair user from a power chair that might very well have an undercarriage bolt that protrudes straight down, from the bottom of a 300 to 385 pound power wheelchair, so that an automatic lock-down system for their van can allow them mobility.

MOST of the people who use power wheelchairs are low-level quadriplegics, with very limited hand function.

A little overboard? Ever seen a woman cry like a baby after going on a walk and reaching a section end of a long (typically road-side) sidewalk that ends with a 4- or 5- or 6- or even a 7- or 8-inch curb with a straight drop off? and then needing to turn back around, and waste precious battery power? I have. In four different states across the USA.

A little overboard? Ever gone to Newark New Jersey, near the Rutgers campus area, where ancient SLATE sidewalks have no curb cuts? My wife went there after she was disabled and was studying for (and earning) her master's degree in research psychology, and could not move around much of the surrounding area's sidewalks because they had no curb cuts.

Not being disabled, but able-bodied, you have absolutely NO idea how hurtful your attitude is. Yes, tax dollars at work. At work to help the disabled move around the neighborhood safely, on the sidewalks--once they are built by non-permitted, private contractors, who often do not even make any ADA compliance effort at all.

I fully support the ADA and wish it would do more than it does. I've been involved with programs to help people in wheelchairs. I was the first in St. Louis to modify a campus darkroom to permit wheelchair use of an enlarger. No offense intended -- it's a ramp without sidewalks.

Joe

well you are surely nicer than myself as i don't fully support ada. AS shown it in your pic another example of government intervention run amuck. They could have easily implemented a policy or regulation requiring the accessibility of the sidewalk AS it is put in. If they chose not to place requirements on sidewalk installation this is the result. Ramps to no where. But should they place requirements on private contractors? well they do in other aspects i see no difference. My main issue with ada is private business. The requirement that any business open to the public should be accessible. This is gone to the extreme now with bathrooms as well passing down the costs to private industry. You may never have a single wheel chair person enter your establishment and have a gorgeous entry way to your business but end up required to basically destroy it to meet code and put in a ramp, all at your own expense.

The historic districts others try to preserve, cobble stone streets etc have somewhat been grandfathered i think? But enough people threaten lawsuits they will probably be required to destroy the cobble stone streets to make them ada compliant as well. So case by case basis some i think i agree with others is government interference with others flipping the bill for it and a infringement on personal property rights not to mention compromising actual construction, increasing costs, and threatening some of our more historic buildings and areas.

 

[bribrius]

shoot i had a disagreement with my own town code enforcement over the necessary size of hand rails and if steps were bolted to the building (like they were going to fly away or something). I couldnt imagine if they said i had to put in a elevator to meet new regulations on only a two story building and make all fire exits handicapped accessible. Be like tens of thousands of dollars. .

 

[Ysarex89 83]

ADA?

Americans with Disabilities Act. Doesn't apply to you Canadians. The city is required to make the curbs wheelchair accessible. Arguably they've gone a little overboard in this case.

Joe

I spent 17 years married to a woman who became paralyzed (C-6/C-7) about a year after we got married. She uses a power chair to this day. Wheelchair curb cuts like this are installed because in many jurisdictions across the USA, contractors who build houses often need no permit to put in sidewalks, as is the case in St. Louis, Missouri.
Residential Construction

A little overboard? This is a program that disabled people really count on, so they can get their wheelchairs onto sidewalks. This is an example of something the federal government decided to do to ensure that, when sidewalks are built, that wheelchair users can actually get ON to the sidewalks which will eventually be built, in many cases, without building permits.

A little overboard? Tell it to my disabled ex-wife. MANY have been the times we've gone to some place, only to find that a privately-built sidewalk ended on a 4- to 5-inch drop straight off a curb. Which is a perfect way to DUMP OUT a wheelchair user from a power chair that might very well have an undercarriage bolt that protrudes straight down, from the bottom of a 300 to 385 pound power wheelchair, so that an automatic lock-down system for their van can allow them mobility.

MOST of the people who use power wheelchairs are low-level quadriplegics, with very limited hand function.

A little overboard? Ever seen a woman cry like a baby after going on a walk and reaching a section end of a long (typically road-side) sidewalk that ends with a 4- or 5- or 6- or even a 7- or 8-inch curb with a straight drop off? and then needing to turn back around, and waste precious battery power? I have. In four different states across the USA.

A little overboard? Ever gone to Newark New Jersey, near the Rutgers campus area, where ancient SLATE sidewalks have no curb cuts? My wife went there after she was disabled and was studying for (and earning) her master's degree in research psychology, and could not move around much of the surrounding area's sidewalks because they had no curb cuts.

Not being disabled, but able-bodied, you have absolutely NO idea how hurtful your attitude is. Yes, tax dollars at work. At work to help the disabled move around the neighborhood safely, on the sidewalks--once they are built by non-permitted, private contractors, who often do not even make any ADA compliance effort at all.

I fully support the ADA and wish it would do more than it does. I've been involved with programs to help people in wheelchairs. I was the first in St. Louis to modify a campus darkroom to permit wheelchair use of an enlarger. No offense intended -- it's a ramp without sidewalks.

Joe

well you are surely nicer than myself as i don't fully support ada. AS shown it in your pic another example of government intervention run amuck. They could have easily implemented a policy or regulation requiring the accessibility of the sidewalk AS it is put in. If they chose not to place requirements on sidewalk installation this is the result. Ramps to no where. But should they place requirements on private contractors? well they do in other aspects i see no difference. My main issue with ada is private business. The requirement that any business open to the public should be accessible. This is gone to the extreme now with bathrooms as well passing down the costs to private industry. You may never have a single wheel chair person enter your establishment and have a gorgeous entry way to your business but end up required to basically destroy it to meet code and put in a ramp, all at your own expense.

The historic districts others try to preserve, cobble stone streets etc have somewhat been grandfathered i think? But enough people threaten lawsuits they will probably be required to destroy the cobble stone streets to make them ada compliant as well. So case by case basis some i think i agree with others is government interference with others flipping the bill for it and a infringement on personal property rights not to mention compromising actual construction, increasing costs, and threatening some of our more historic buildings and areas.

Through the years I spent raising my son I repeated this over and over thousands of times in the hope it would stick: "people are more important than things." People are also smart. If you want to preserve an historic district and accommodate wheelchairs there's someone smart enough to solve any problem. An historic district that excludes an entire group of people is so diminished by that act as to not be worth preserving.

ADA doesn't infringe on personal/private property rights. It only comes into play when private property is opened to the public for private gain. Don't publicly open for business and ADA won't bother you.

Joe

 

[jcdeboever]

Saint Louis making progress with ADA compliance program.

Joe

View attachment 118672

That is so blatantly wrong and not real funny either. My sister has MS and I take her out as much as I can and by the end of the day I am ready for a drink. Unreal until you actually experience the lack of consideration everywhere for the handicap. The thing that drives me the most insane is the parking (which is minor in the grand scheme). I am not kidding, every time I take her out we use her mirror flag for parking. There has never been a day that someone using a spot that is convenient for us has a questionable disability. I used to go up to them but she has pleaded with me to stop doing this. It is really a pain and I have to be with her because there are road blocks in the most obvious areas of need. Bathrooms are a pain in restaurants, not a good day when a man has to go into a ladies bathroom to rescue his sister. The city of Detroit is real bad for sidewalks but she wouldn't travel them anyway for safety reasons.

 

[Ysarex89 83]

Saint Louis making progress with ADA compliance program.

Joe

View attachment 118672

That is so blatantly wrong and not real funny either. My sister has MS and I take her out as much as I can and by the end of the day I am ready for a drink. Unreal until you actually experience the lack of consideration everywhere for the handicap. The thing that drives me the most insane is the parking (which is minor in the grand scheme). I am not kidding, every time I take her out we use her mirror flag for parking. There has never been a day that someone using a spot that is convenient for us has a questionable disability. I used to go up to them but she has pleaded with me to stop doing this. It is really a pain and I have to be with her because there are road blocks in the most obvious areas of need. Bathrooms are a pain in restaurants, not a good day when a man has to go into a ladies bathroom to rescue his sister. The city of Detroit is real bad for sidewalks but she wouldn't travel them anyway for safety reasons.

Hey everybody. I'm sorry I posted this thinking it was humorous to have a ramp to nowhere and expose the city's incompetence. It is a very real and serious problem and again I meant no offense. When I originally took the photo I did so to show my wife who is very concerned about the issue -- it's a sore issue here in St. Louis. You should also note from the photo that the ramp itself is incorrect as it's a single cut that forces the wheelchair out into the street rather than toward a cross walk. A proper curb ramp is double cut to both cross walks. St. Louis installed hundreds of these incorrect ramps and is still not getting all new ones done correctly. So the photo is a double affront: not only a ramp to nowhere but an improper ramp as well.

My wife and I read a blog by a city resident, Steve Patterson, who is wheelchair bound and writes about problems he encounters navigating St. Louis. His work does get results: UrbanReview St Louis We can and should do better.

Joe

 

[jcdeboever]

Saint Louis making progress with ADA compliance program.

Joe

View attachment 118672

That is so blatantly wrong and not real funny either. My sister has MS and I take her out as much as I can and by the end of the day I am ready for a drink. Unreal until you actually experience the lack of consideration everywhere for the handicap. The thing that drives me the most insane is the parking (which is minor in the grand scheme). I am not kidding, every time I take her out we use her mirror flag for parking. There has never been a day that someone using a spot that is convenient for us has a questionable disability. I used to go up to them but she has pleaded with me to stop doing this. It is really a pain and I have to be with her because there are road blocks in the most obvious areas of need. Bathrooms are a pain in restaurants, not a good day when a man has to go into a ladies bathroom to rescue his sister. The city of Detroit is real bad for sidewalks but she wouldn't travel them anyway for safety reasons.

Hey everybody. I'm sorry I posted this thinking it was humorous to have a ramp to nowhere and expose the city's incompetence. It is a very real and serious problem and again I meant no offense. When I originally took the photo I did so to show my wife who is very concerned about the issue -- it's a sore issue here in St. Louis. You should also note from the photo that the ramp itself is incorrect as it's a single cut that forces the wheelchair out into the street rather than toward a cross walk. A proper curb ramp is double cut to both cross walks. St. Louis installed hundreds of these incorrect ramps and is still not getting all new ones done correctly. So the photo is a double affront: not only a ramp to nowhere but an improper ramp as well.

My wife and I read a blog by a city resident, Steve Patterson, who is wheelchair bound and writes about problems he encounters navigating St. Louis. His work does get results: UrbanReview St Louis We can and should do better.

Joe

It's all good. I wasn't referring to your post. I was referring to the people that put that in, they probably thought it was funny. No offense taken. Interesting thread buddy. [emoji41]

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[JacaRanda]

Saint Louis making progress with ADA compliance program.

Joe

View attachment 118672

That is so blatantly wrong and not real funny either. My sister has MS and I take her out as much as I can and by the end of the day I am ready for a drink. Unreal until you actually experience the lack of consideration everywhere for the handicap. The thing that drives me the most insane is the parking (which is minor in the grand scheme). I am not kidding, every time I take her out we use her mirror flag for parking. There has never been a day that someone using a spot that is convenient for us has a questionable disability. I used to go up to them but she has pleaded with me to stop doing this. It is really a pain and I have to be with her because there are road blocks in the most obvious areas of need. Bathrooms are a pain in restaurants, not a good day when a man has to go into a ladies bathroom to rescue his sister. The city of Detroit is real bad for sidewalks but she wouldn't travel them anyway for safety reasons.

Hey everybody. I'm sorry I posted this thinking it was humorous to have a ramp to nowhere and expose the city's incompetence. It is a very real and serious problem and again I meant no offense. When I originally took the photo I did so to show my wife who is very concerned about the issue -- it's a sore issue here in St. Louis. You should also note from the photo that the ramp itself is incorrect as it's a single cut that forces the wheelchair out into the street rather than toward a cross walk. A proper curb ramp is double cut to both cross walks. St. Louis installed hundreds of these incorrect ramps and is still not getting all new ones done correctly. So the photo is a double affront: not only a ramp to nowhere but an improper ramp as well.

My wife and I read a blog by a city resident, Steve Patterson, who is wheelchair bound and writes about problems he encounters navigating St. Louis. His work does get results: UrbanReview St Louis We can and should do better.

Joe

I got it as you initially intended it to be seen or thought of.
Wonder what kind of thoughts (some maybe insensitive) it would have gotten if posted in a different forum thread for discussion.