This is the beginner's forum right?

[McMommy]

So it's not what we say, it's how we say it?

Or are you referring to comments that have only negative comments and not suggestions for improvement?

I think a negative comment can be a suggestion for improvement, depending on how it's stated. If the intent is helpful criticism, then why not let the comment be that way too? Why bother with being rude or sarcastic? (not referring to your comment being sarcastic, btw, but a lot of the comments I have read in other threads.)

 

[fokker]

Yep, it's pretty hard to convey to convey emotion in ambiguous statements over teh internet.

In other words: blunt does not equate to **** <- starts with c and rhymes with blunt

 

[c.cloudwalker]

I hate to tell you but the art world is harsh. I wonder how you would react to being told your work is trash in front of over 100 people... as happened to me. If you don't develop thick skin in a hurry, you will not last. Sorry.

I just happened on your thread to which Dominantly replied. You seem to find him harsh when he is probably one of the gentlest person (while still being honest) on this forum. And he definitely tries to help.

Thanks for letting me know to stay away from your threads though.

 

[McMommy]

I hate to tell you but the art world is harsh. I wonder how you would react to being told your work is trash in front of over 100 people... as happened to me. If you don't develop thick skin in a hurry, you will not last. Sorry.

I just happened on your thread to which Dominantly replied. You seem to find him harsh when he is probably one of the gentlest person (while still being honest) on this forum. And he definitely tries to help.

Thanks for letting me know to stay away from your threads though.

Well I'm not mainly referring to my threads at all... it's a theme I've seen on the beginner section of this forum. I only pointed out what he said because I didn't understand how he meant it originally, but was hoping it wasn't as it came across.

I wouldn't have my art criticized in front of 100 people, because I know my stuff isn't up to the caliber of showing it to 100 people. That's why I'm here. When I'm good, and know what I should and shouldn't be doing, and have a lot of practice under my belt... I'm sure I'll have a much thicker skin then because I'll be confident in my abilities. But for now, why bother with the nastiness when it's totally not necessary?

 

[c.cloudwalker]

It was not nastiness. It was a free C&C session that a lot of people attended. Since he thought it was trash there was really not much reason to elaborate while all the others are waiting for their turn. I asked for his opinion, I got it. That's it.

And different people have different ways of expressing themselves.

 

[fokker]

As per previous posts, it's not 'nastiness' it's just not mincing your words, ie getting to the point. Most of the 'nasty' posts you are probably thinking of were intended by the author as being as helpful as possible - how you perceive the comment is up to you, but if you appreciate honest feedback then you will take it at face value and not read it as a 'mean' comment but rather a pearl of wisdom.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

...not read it as a 'mean' comment but rather a pearl of wisdom.

In my case, I didn't see the C&C as mean but I sure didn't see as a pearl of wisdom :lmao:

My reaction was more along the line of: this guy just doesn't get it.

 

[mdtusz]

I'll be honest, this is probably the most "kind" and dishonest photography forums I've been on apart from photoforum.com

If people ask for critique, I will happily give it to them, but it more than likely will make them feel like crap, usually because the picture they post is far from "professional" or even pro-amateur. I have gotten to a point where if I open a thread and someone has already commented saying "this is really pretty ", I won't bother critiquing because the battle is already lost and I will become the 'bad guy'.

I agree that there is some unnecessary rudeness on here, but that's just people not knowing how to constructively criticize. Most people nowadays don't know how actually... Coming from a job where that is what I do on a daily basis (coach) often dealing with the most sensitive people (3 year olds up to seniors) with one of the most complicated sports around (sailing), you quickly learn a right and a wrong way to criticize and point out flaws (granted I don't always apply this on the internet...)

It is a simple concept called the poo sandwich.

1) Give them some bread: "I love the pose she has"

2) Give them a healthy dose of poo: "but the composition is much too tight on her face, you cut off her left arm, and there's something in the background there that you could have moved to remove the clutter."

3) More bread: "Try a reshoot and maybe add a bit of sharpening to her eyes and it will look much better!"

Alternatively, you can give them poo on toast if it's really bad and you can't find enough good, or, they are bold enough to accept the criticism.

 

[fokker]

...not read it as a 'mean' comment but rather a pearl of wisdom.

In my case, I didn't see the C&C as mean but I sure didn't see as a pearl of wisdom :lmao:

My reaction was more along the line of: this guy just doesn't get it.

I guess that would make it a negative comment rather than a negative but constructive one. But even a negative comment with no justification can be of use to someone seeking to better their work.

I think it is acceptable to question the judgement of any comments given and to disagree, but not to the point where the response becomes a massive self-defense and personal attacks are made against the commenter.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

I think it is acceptable to question the judgement of any comments given and to disagree, but not to the point where the response becomes a massive self-defense and personal attacks are made against the commenter.

Agreed as long as one realizes there are no gods in the arts, just people with opinions.

What was really funny is that a few months later, those same images were hanging in a gallery for my first solo show and, there again, someone called them trash. The gallery owner was way more upset than I was

 

[fokker]

Haha, good on ya. Nobody enjoys having their work rubbished, but it says a lot about a character when you can suck it up not let it get you down.

 

[jeffreyamanning]

Everyone has an opinion. Take pride in your work and question why they think the way they do. If they have a valid point, take it into consideration and mark it as a possible weak spot in your photography/PP. You will figure out who is being an a-hole and who is just harsh by questioning them. Most people are willing to help you as long as you are willing to take reasonable criticism (the harsh kind too).

 

[K8-90]

Hehe, I have an analogy!

Food. Despite the fact that we are just going to chew it up and then it all goes to the same place, presentation matters. You've got to make it look appetizing in order for someone to eat it.

LOL.

Some people on here are quite nice, though. Big_Mike for one is very knowledgeable and delivers things very coherently and politely. Maybe it's because he's Canadian...

 

[Superub]

As a beginner here, and someone who does seek feedback i would much prefer the blunt and honest opinion of someone who is not emotionally attached to the picture and can see it objectively. I actually find it hard to get honest opinions from people - maybe my work is just not that good :-(.

I think some people get to emotionally attached to the images they present and are really only posting them for congratulations. If you invite feedback be prepared to deal with the consequences.

 

[LaFoto]

In a way, each and everyone of us are somewhat emotionally attached to those photos that we decide to make visible to many people, I should think. Which puts some into the defensive the moment they have made their work public. Acting or speaking out of the defensive will always make the photo owner react with some personal distance towards another who calls them out on the flaws of their photos.

However, becoming defensive to a degree where the obvious flaws are not recognised as flaws, but are being defended to no end, will alienate those who offer their opinions and/or critiques/critisism, too. And off we go ...

We have a saying in my language (German), which roughly translates into "The way you shout into the woods will be the way the echo comes back", and another that says "Its the sound that makes the music". When you give rude, cynic, aloof remarks only, the other will feel more pushed into the defensive than ever before. If your music is harmonic, the whole thread will stay harmonic.

Some have it in them to give ... what was that very apt term again, must scroll and look ... poo sandwich (thank you mctusz! )-critique, and some don't. So if a photo sports all sorts of flaws, they'll just go point those out. Full-stop.

Those beginners who do decide to present their photos to a wider audience - move out of the defenisve. Develop some distance between yourself and the photo you present, move away, look from afar together with the viewers who are NOT attached to the photo at all, listen, think, don't defend yourselves right away, think some more and learn. Also from the non-sugarcoated (non poo-SANDWICHED) remarks.