This is the beginner's forum right?

[dom yo]

MY co-workers consistently joke about the volume of Mt. Dew I consume. Programmers need their caffeine

yes they do!
redbull, starbucks, and mt dew is all i need in my life

Redbull KICKS. MY. @$$.

I'm not even kidding you... If I drink a full 8oz can of that stuff around noon, I don't *start* to come down until about 10pm.

And some time around 6 or 7 my fingers will be numb... never fails.

It doesn't do anything to some people... but... it WIPES the ground with my @$$.

That also might have to do with the fact that I weigh 5lbs... but it really does a number on me.

redbull just makes me alert, coffee (mainly starbucks) gives me tons of energy, mt dew is a good mix between the two

5lbs?! you camera is going to weigh half of you!

 

[Alan92RTTT]

MY co-workers consistently joke about the volume of Mt. Dew I consume. Programmers need their caffeine

Dude, Mt. Dew caused me to develop a caffine addiction in college. I drank a TON of it for my first semester in college and then over christmas break I didn't have *any* and I had the worlds biggest caffine crash and was the BIGGEST ***** on the planet!

MY wife bitches at me all the time. Not because I drink 3-4 20oz bottles a day but because I can go no caffeine over the weekend or on a trip with no effect on me.


I grew up with Iced tea being the drink in the house. dew does not have much caffeine in comparison

 

[Overread]

I agree with the OP and the beginners should be allowed to ask the same questions over and over agian. Nothing says if you have seen and answered a question 500 times you have to do it again. Nobody is twisting your arm to answer, especially in a short abrasive manner. Let someone else take the reins thats willing to answer. As for honnest critique there is nothing wrong with it. But what you have to remmeber is if you use terms like "the picture is soft" or similar and thats it. Does the newbie know what that means? Have to remember a newbie may not know the lingo. Obviously "picture sucks" and nothing else, that comment helps no one. But even when you take the time to give a short sentence on why you don't like the pictures maybe your use of technical terms is not understood. Replies have to be at the level of the forum. Since its a beginners forum longer explanations are probably in order. Again nobody is forcing you to read them or reply to them. So why reply if you don't want to or will be abrasive in your reply. Stick to the advanced forums. Let others deal with the newbies.

I think people forget an online community is a "social interaction" not just an information source. Yes maybe the answer is in 500 posts or online in websites, or in volumes of reference manuals. But there is no social interaction with those sources. Part of the act of joining the site is not to just get answers, but also the communication between people with similar interests in the subject of the particular site.

Let the beginners be beginners!

^^ That!

Some say that forums are harsh and brutal and that the "real world" is also like that as well so forums should be too Kind of an "I was beaten and so I shall beat you" argument I feel and I've never ever liked it or the mentality that thinking that way leads to.

As for forums always being harsh and with problems - meh - it seems to happen to many (esp bigger ones) but one I am on (with 1million + posts - albeit smaller than here) which handles story writing and critique almost totally lacks an abusive climate (And writers are just as much artists as photographers and just as attached to their writings). Sure there is the odd spat and fight but overall there is not the tone of hostility toward new members.


I say let beginner be beginners and if you don't want to reply - well then don't. No need to be rude to the person nor discriminate against them - just hold your tongue. IF you want to foster an advanced community it does not happen by alienating and "losing" the beginners at all. It starts with nurturing the beginners - offering help and creating a community that people want to join and be a part of - from there attracting advanced members is often not that hard and heck some of those beginners might stick around long enough to be tomorrows advanced members (even if many never realise the fact).

I have no idea why some people choose to always stir the pot against beginners in some form of rebellion against them - what is it that drives this - bordem, jealousy, naturally bad temperment?

 

[Overread]

Some get bashed because they ask silly questions before they have even read the manual or searched for a thread where it has been answered before
I think i could be one of them you are having a ***** about I dont like to gloss over the truth because it is no good telling someone a photo is good when its not, they will carry on making the same mistakes

Aye but most would perfer more elaboration on the point rather than just the point itself. Simply saying "overexposed" "clipped the red colour channel" etc... can often mean nothing to a new member. Heck if you said the last to me when I started you'd have got a me. Explination of a point is the first step to education - the second (and highly important step) is the suggestion of a (or multiple) possible solutions to the problem - be the in camera or editing methods.

This is what people are after - its not the first part - the identification of errors alone - its that and the second - the suggestion of corrections. Because when one starts they don't know the how in order to correct the mistakes even if they are shown them.

 

[Derrel]

No, this is not the Beginner's Forum, it is the off-topic RedBull Kicks My A$$, I Thought This Is a Giant, System-wide ChatRoom forum...

 

[ghpham]

The problem with the internet is it let anonymous folks hiding behind keyboard to be rude and obnoxious. I belong to many forums and this is a common theme. I also noticed that the majority of the offender are younger people who have no tact or social skills. The art world is no harsher then any other profession in real life. Life is rough. However, I don't recall EVER when I was in school, a teacher would call me out in front of a class, and say that I suck. I don't recall EVER my boss say my work suck when we are alone much less in public. If you want to be treated like a professional, then act like one. I serious doubt that anyone here would talk to a person face to face the way they talk here on the forum. Instead of telling someone to get thicker skin, perhaps we should try to change the behavior of the offenders.

Now, If a newbie ask a dumb question that irritate you, just move on. If you want to share your passion, want the art to grow, then be patient and teach. Use simple language they can understand.

 

[Rosshole]

The problem with the internet is it let anonymous folks hiding behind keyboard to be rude and obnoxious. I belong to many forums and this is a common theme. I also noticed that the majority of the offender are younger people who have no tact or social skills. The art world is no harsher then any other profession in real life. Life is rough. However, I don't recall EVER when I was in school, a teacher would call me out in front of a class, and say that I suck. I don't recall EVER my boss say my work suck when we are alone much less in public. If you want to be treated like a professional, then act like one. I serious doubt that anyone here would talk to a person face to face the way they talk here on the forum. Instead of telling someone to get thicker skin, perhaps we should try to change the behavior of the offenders.

Now, If a newbie ask a dumb question that irritate you, just move on. If you want to share your passion, want the art to grow, then be patient and teach. Use simple language they can understand.

Well said.

 

[myfotoguy]

I agree with the OP and the beginners should be allowed to ask the same questions over and over agian. Nothing says if you have seen and answered a question 500 times you have to do it again. Nobody is twisting your arm to answer, especially in a short abrasive manner. Let someone else take the reins thats willing to answer. As for honnest critique there is nothing wrong with it. But what you have to remmeber is if you use terms like "the picture is soft" or similar and thats it. Does the newbie know what that means? Have to remember a newbie may not know the lingo. Obviously "picture sucks" and nothing else, that comment helps no one. But even when you take the time to give a short sentence on why you don't like the pictures maybe your use of technical terms is not understood. Replies have to be at the level of the forum. Since its a beginners forum longer explanations are probably in order. Again nobody is forcing you to read them or reply to them. So why reply if you don't want to or will be abrasive in your reply. Stick to the advanced forums. Let others deal with the newbies.

I think people forget an online community is a "social interaction" not just an information source. Yes maybe the answer is in 500 posts or online in websites, or in volumes of reference manuals. But there is no social interaction with those sources. Part of the act of joining the site is not to just get answers, but also the communication between people with similar interests in the subject of the particular site.

Let the beginners be beginners!

^^ That!

Some say that forums are harsh and brutal and that the "real world" is also like that as well so forums should be too Kind of an "I was beaten and so I shall beat you" argument I feel and I've never ever liked it or the mentality that thinking that way leads to.

As for forums always being harsh and with problems - meh - it seems to happen to many (esp bigger ones) but one I am on (with 1million + posts - albeit smaller than here) which handles story writing and critique almost totally lacks an abusive climate (And writers are just as much artists as photographers and just as attached to their writings). Sure there is the odd spat and fight but overall there is not the tone of hostility toward new members.


I say let beginner be beginners and if you don't want to reply - well then don't. No need to be rude to the person nor discriminate against them - just hold your tongue. IF you want to foster an advanced community it does not happen by alienating and "losing" the beginners at all. It starts with nurturing the beginners - offering help and creating a community that people want to join and be a part of - from there attracting advanced members is often not that hard and heck some of those beginners might stick around long enough to be tomorrows advanced members (even if many never realise the fact).

I have no idea why some people choose to always stir the pot against beginners in some form of rebellion against them - what is it that drives this - bordem, jealousy, naturally bad temperment?

Well said.

Random thoughts:
Honest, truthful, valuable feedback can be given without being blunt and harsh.

Although, I do recognize it can be difficult to word your response in a way that it doesn't come across as “rude”. Especially in an online response it can be hard to tell the tone and intention of the response. But, I do from time to time see responses that seem to lack any attempt at being respectful.

Truthful, honest feedback can still be done in a respectful way. It's a fine line and comes down to personal opinion I guess. But to expect everyone to have thick skin to the comments that obviously were made without any attempt at being respectful does not seem very useful to me. Especially since many "newbies" are already unsure about what they got themselves into, and they need honest feedback, not rude feedback. Being “harsh and honest” doesn’t help, while being “truthful and honest” does.

Like I said, it’s a fine line, and IMO the “newbie” does have some responsibility to take some of the feedback with a grain of salt and consider the core of the message, not the way it was delivered. But still, some folks do blatantly cross the line into rudeness. And don’t seem to have any consideration for how the other individual may take the response. The attitude seems to be “If you don’t like it, then leave”. Whey does the person asking for feedback have to be subjected to that? Common courtesy is all I’m saying. For the most part, I see it here, and am thankful for that.

When I see outright rudeness, I have learned to ignore those comments, but I have been on forums for a long time, so maybe that experience helps me to mine out the truth from the rudeness. When I do see disrespectful rudeness though, I feel sorry for the OP, especially so if they are new to the forum, and the hobby.

Alright, done rambling. I Just wanted to throw my opinion in too as to how I feel about this hot topic. I found it insightful to read the many responses. Thanks.

 

[white]

You know what I think is rude? When someone asks for criticism and you give it to them, and they don't thank you or acknowledge your post.

This isn't a one-way street.

 

[Boomn4x4]

The problem with the internet is it let anonymous folks hiding behind keyboard to be rude and obnoxious. I belong to many forums and this is a common theme. I also noticed that the majority of the offender are younger people who have no tact or social skills. The art world is no harsher then any other profession in real life. Life is rough. However, I don't recall EVER when I was in school, a teacher would call me out in front of a class, and say that I suck. I don't recall EVER my boss say my work suck when we are alone much less in public. If you want to be treated like a professional, then act like one. I serious doubt that anyone here would talk to a person face to face the way they talk here on the forum. Instead of telling someone to get thicker skin, perhaps we should try to change the behavior of the offenders.

Now, If a newbie ask a dumb question that irritate you, just move on. If you want to share your passion, want the art to grow, then be patient and teach. Use simple language they can understand.

Well said.

Except for the fact that the Internet isn't real life.

This is EXACTLY why you see way too often people who's lives are ruined by the Internet... people who would never do anything wrong it real life would extort an eldery woman out of her entire estate, husbands who are desperatly in love with their wives seek out the lust of women on the Internet, people who were well respected in their careers have lost their jobs because of things they did on the Internet, people have KILLED themselves over things that have been said on the Internet.... ITS NOT REAL LIFE... DON'T TREAT IT AS SUCH. If people didn't get so wrapped up in the "reality" of the Internet, none of these things would be problematic.

If you wanted to be treated like a professional, go see a professional... take a class, hire a professional to show you the ropes, go to an art gallery and associate yourself with other professionals. There is nothing professional about the Internet.

You shouldn't trust everything, or anything for that matter, you come across on the Internet... take what you find with a grain of salt and move on with your life.

 

[Rosshole]

Except for the fact that the Internet isn't real life.

This is EXACTLY why you see way too often people who's lives are ruined by the Internet... people who would never do anything wrong it real life would extort an eldery woman out of her entire estate, husbands who are desperatly in love with their wives seek out the lust of women on the Internet, people who were well respected in their careers have lost their jobs because of things they did on the Internet, people have KILLED themselves over things that have been said on the Internet.... ITS NOT REAL LIFE... DON'T TREAT IT AS SUCH. If people didn't get so wrapped up in the "reality" of the Internet, none of these things would be problematic.

If you wanted to be treated like a professional, go see a professional... take a class, hire a professional to show you the ropes, go to an art gallery and associate yourself with other professionals. There is nothing professional about the Internet.

You shouldn't trust everything, or anything for that matter, you come across on the Internet... take what you find with a grain of salt and move on with your life.

So your goal is to be rude and abrasive because this is fake?

interesting...

 

[Boomn4x4]

So your goal is to be rude and abrasive because this is fake?

interesting...

No, not at all.... It has nothing to do with how I carry myself... it has everything to do with what I take out of it.

 

[ghpham]

The problem with the internet is it let anonymous folks hiding behind keyboard to be rude and obnoxious. I belong to many forums and this is a common theme. I also noticed that the majority of the offender are younger people who have no tact or social skills. The art world is no harsher then any other profession in real life. Life is rough. However, I don't recall EVER when I was in school, a teacher would call me out in front of a class, and say that I suck. I don't recall EVER my boss say my work suck when we are alone much less in public. If you want to be treated like a professional, then act like one. I serious doubt that anyone here would talk to a person face to face the way they talk here on the forum. Instead of telling someone to get thicker skin, perhaps we should try to change the behavior of the offenders.

Now, If a newbie ask a dumb question that irritate you, just move on. If you want to share your passion, want the art to grow, then be patient and teach. Use simple language they can understand.

Well said.

Except for the fact that the Internet isn't real life.

This is EXACTLY why you see way too often people who's lives are ruined by the Internet... people who would never do anything wrong it real life would extort an eldery woman out of her entire estate, husbands who are desperatly in love with their wives seek out the lust of women on the Internet, people who were well respected in their careers have lost their jobs because of things they did on the Internet, people have KILLED themselves over things that have been said on the Internet.... ITS NOT REAL LIFE... DON'T TREAT IT AS SUCH. If people didn't get so wrapped up in the "reality" of the Internet, none of these things would be problematic.

If you wanted to be treated like a professional, go see a professional... take a class, hire a professional to show you the ropes, go to an art gallery and associate yourself with other professionals. There is nothing professional about the Internet.

You shouldn't trust everything, or anything for that matter, you come across on the Internet... take what you find with a grain of salt and move on with your life.

I think you just justified why people should treat the internet as REAL LIFE. The consequences of acting otherwise....well, you just listed them.

By the way, sometime it's hard to keep the two personna separate. Someday, the internet behavior will get mixed in with real life, then you'll find out what a b!tch that will be. But, whatever. I don't know you, and you don't know me. Carry on.

 

[Overread]

Yes the internet is fake - you all figments of my imagination - now dance my puppets dance! DANCE I say!

.....


You know I've had a few fantastic meet ups with photography groups where I met all the people online - great days out.

 

[pbelarge]

Yes the internet is fake - you all figments of my imagination - now dance my puppets dance! DANCE I say!

.....


You know I've had a few fantastic meet ups with photography groups where I met all the people online - great days out.

Were any of those in NY. :mrgreen: