TO THE BEGINNERS

Dao · Oct 18, 2008

It all comes down to what you want to achieve. If you are satisfied with the result the P&S camera delivers, by all mean, use the P&S camera. It is easier to use, lighter in weight and ....

However, if you want to capture something and find that the camera is the limitation, you may need to find something better in that aspect.

I 100% agree that the person behind the camera is the key to a stunning photos. (That includes choosing the right gears for the right moment)

zubin · Oct 18, 2008

kalmkidd said:
first of all johny 9 post b4 you talk about me get to know me.. im 21 does that mean something. im also married with 2 kids and a Iraq vet. does that mean something 2? number 2 i OWN a Nikon d40 so saying it out of ''jealousy'' is something that now made you sound stupid.. Number 3 i was not harsh or talking down on anybody i was stating simple facts and anytime you wanna have a ''shoot out'' you can pick the scenario and use your SLR and ill use my PnS, and we will see who has better results..

Jealousy? You're quoting words i didnt even use. Re-read my post. Who looks stupid now:mrgreen: Good for you being an Iraq vet, married with children. You chose a different path than I did and thats fine. I'm not here to criticise your life choices. You still come across as condescending in your posts.

How can you even correlate post count to photgraphy skill? To be honest i had a long response that i typed out to your comments but i feel as if most if it would be lost on you. Take care:hug::

Hawaii Five-O · Oct 18, 2008

Advanced point and shoots are great too. As their optics are a little better and they usually have a ton of features in them. Plus some of them have extra add on zoom lens..

dormfab · Oct 18, 2008

chrisburke said:
they are great for people who want the functionality of an SLR, but arent ready to move to an SLR

You brought it up and Dao touched on it, but as a noob who has only ever known P&S, when would someone know they are being held back by their equipment without ever having used it to know the difference?

Paul M · Oct 18, 2008

chrisburke said:
i havent heard of any P&S that allowed interchangable lens' (thats what SRL's are) however there are LOTS of P&S that have manual settings.. they are great for people who want the functionality of an SLR, but arent ready to move to an SLR

I know what you mean...When I'm on my bike and going to events, I usually take the P&S, even though I am very limited with it. However, that's why I got my DSLR, for the times that I am not on the bike, I can be creative and hace fun.

Dao · Oct 18, 2008

dormfab said:
You brought it up and Dao touched on it, but as a noob who has only ever known P&S, when would someone know they are being held back by their equipment without ever having used it to know the difference?

From what I read in here or other forums, someone may start a thread and ask how to accomplish certain tasks. And learned that their current system was not capable of doing it.

For example, after seeing a photo of a person spiking a volleyball inside a indoor stadium. And he/she would like to learn how to take a photo of that type of low light action shot. And of course, there are a lot other examples regarding a limitation of a Point And Shoot camera.

However, I do not mean Point and Shoots are no good. Some of them are amazing. For general purpose or all around type of photography, they are just great. And I agree with the original poster's point of view of mastering the photography does not mean just need to get a expensive camera. The person behind is very important such as knowledge of lightning control and composition ... Owning a DSLR or other high end camera system do not equal to creating stunning pictures. But point and shoot cameras do have limitations. And I am sure you can find some more examples in here, just need to do some search and digging. :wink:

tsaraleksi · Oct 18, 2008

dormfab said:
You brought it up and Dao touched on it, but as a noob who has only ever known P&S, when would someone know they are being held back by their equipment without ever having used it to know the difference?

I'm not sure I'm a big help because I went from borrowing a film SLR to a digital SLR rather than point and shoot to SLR, but I would say that when you can look at your images and see places where they are being lessened by technical aspects that you cannot control. Some examples that spring to mind are autofocus speed, frame rate, dynamic range, depth of field, sharpness, local contrast (the kind that comes from the lens, not the camera/photoshop), lens width or length, lens speed, control of flash/off camera flash, etc etc. Now it's certainly true that some of these things are also problems with introductory level lenses and SLR cameras. However, on a point and shoot you will never be able to overcome those things, whereas you can find just the right combination of equipment to suit you on an SLR.

For example, here's an image that would be flat out impossible with a point and shoot camera:

paxye · Oct 18, 2008

Just touching on a few points that I read on this thread...

I am new to having a DSLR but I have been using the Canon G series for a few years now and there is a LOT that you can do with them...

The one that I have now is the G9 and though it does not have interchangeable lenses exactly like a DSLR, it does have interchangeable converter lenses... like these... which make it very versatile...

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Canon-WC-DC58B-Converter-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000JILHFU/ref=pd_sim_p_1[/ame]
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Canon-TC-DC58C-Converter-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000JILHF0/ref=pd_cp_p_2?pf_rd_p=413862901&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000JILHFU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0DKGQAHAP002XB48F29Y[/ame]

Also... with the G9 you have quite a few options.... of course Auto... but also you can go completely manually, or use Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority as well as a few other options... you can also control ISO from 80-1600... shoot macro, shoot RAW, control white balance, exposure, flash output and sync and it has a hot shoe for external flash for any canon flash... etc.. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong9/

And of course it is also a video camera with no limit of video length (just space on the sd card)

just saying... P&S have their ranges also...

sunlioness · Oct 18, 2008

To be honest, when I first entered the forum (I think it was May) I did it because it was the first time I had held a camera and I was thrilled. It was an ordinary PnS I had borrowed and I had made some shots I really liked and most importantly, I really enjoyed it.
But then, in this forum (and don't ask me how I got this impression, it was in the "air")I got the impression that if I was to take that hobby more seriously (and be taken more seriously here) I would have to move up to dSLR. Months passed, I had to buy a new laprtop etc and by not having the money to buy a dSLR I gave up on photography (learning more stuff) and this forum.
A few days ago, I realised how much of a mistake that was. I shouldn't shoot because of my camera, or the great pictures I can take with it. I should shoot just because nothing from the things I've done gives me so much pleasure.
And I know that a lot people in these forums are dreaded by "newbies" that know nothing about appertures and focal lengthes but some of them have a great eye or great taste. And I have seen such people here being ignored just because some other groups feel elitistic about their cameras and "knowledge".
This is not one of the most friendly corners of the internet and though I met some really interesting people that's why I left. BUT there's great knowledge here and a lot of experienced people so I'm back to keep learning.
Sorry if a got a bit off-topic, I had to get it off my chest

/end of rant

mrodgers · Oct 18, 2008

First thing, what is meant by P&S needs to be determined. Too many refer anything other than an SLR as a point and shoot. But there are more than 1 type of camera that would not be an SLR.

I look at these as point and shoot cameras:

Then we have an advanced P&S or perhaps you could call them a bridge camera. They are what paxye comments on with the G9, manual controls, RAW capability, hotshoe, etc. Most or all of the features of an SLR except for interchangeable lenses or sensor quality:

Third we have what would be a superzoom or they can be called a bridge camera as well. The main difference between the advanced P&S above and the superzoom is the zoom function is a much larger range. They also have full control of most or all features of an SLR. This is the type I have.

Everyone lumps these 3 types of cameras into the same category of "point and shoot", which they are not the same at all.

dormfab said:
You brought it up and Dao touched on it, but as a noob who has only ever known P&S, when would someone know they are being held back by their equipment without ever having used it to know the difference?

If someone is interested in photography over snapshooting pictures at the family functions and vacations, they will seek out information just as most have in this forum. From the knowledge of photography they gain from their searching and joining forums such as this, they learn very easily what limitations their "point and shoot" camera is giving them. I've never used a dSLR, yet I fully understand the limitations of my "point and shoot" and know what is holding me back from the images I'd like to create. But economics rule and I know I have to stick with those limitations and work around them. That doesn't mean I don't know the difference.

sunlioness said:
And I know that a lot people in these forums are dreaded by "newbies" that know nothing about appertures and focal lengthes but some of them have a great eye or great taste. And I have seen such people here being ignored just because some other groups feel elitistic about their cameras and "knowledge".
This is not one of the most friendly corners of the internet and though I met some really interesting people that's why I left. BUT there's great knowledge here and a lot of experienced people so I'm back to keep learning.
Sorry if a got a bit off-topic, I had to get it off my chest

/end of rant

You posted the same feeling that I get from many in this forum. According to members of this forum, since I have a "P&S", I will never achieve a good photo. According to members of this forum, since I can't shoot RAW, I can not adjust the white balance of my images. According to members of this forum, since I can't shoot RAW, I can not change the exposure in post processing to my images.

Now, of course I understand that with RAW data, it is easier to adjust these things with a resulting better quality image, but that doesn't mean it is impossible, which members of this forum speak here as if it is. That is just one example of the elitist attitude I see on these forums.

maulrat · Oct 19, 2008

kalmkidd said:
btw im not saying this to come off like a jerk...

Sure sounded like a jerk to me... after reading your initial post. Now let me go and read the rest of this thread...

...to be continued.

maulrat · Oct 19, 2008

kalmkidd said:
first of all johny 9 post b4 you talk about me get to know me.. im 21 does that mean something.

Ok, is this a question?

kalmkidd said:
... number 2 i OWN a Nikon d40 so saying it out of ''jealousy'' is something that now made you sound stupid..

After reading this sentence, I wonder who the so called "stupid" really is.

kalmkidd said:
Number 3 i was not harsh or talking down on anybody i was stating simple facts and anytime you wanna have a ''shoot out'' you can pick the scenario and use your SLR and ill use my PnS, and we will see who has better results..

Please excuse me. I have to read this very long statement at least 5 more times to understand what is really being said, due to the lack of punctuation.

I really don't like saying this because I am not an English teacher or anything but... Kalmkidd, your grammar sucks much ass. Yes, I was blunt but it is the truth. You really sound like a kid that wants to start a pissing contest. I understand that you are upset because many people say, "Wow, I cannot believe that photo was taken by a point and shoot camera". So what! Honestly, if I were to get a comment like that regarding any of my shots with a P&S, I would take that as a compliment. It only means that the photo is "bad ass" enough to compete with expensive DSLR shots. Perhaps you should take your aggressive behavior and use it more constructively rather than create conflict with others.

manaheim · Oct 19, 2008

To OP: here's an idea... stop judging others, and they'll stop judging you. For example, I'm thinking maybe calling people "stupid" isnt' the best way to gain people's respect.

To anyone who thinks you need a P&S to be taken seriously...

This has been said before, I will say it again. This is a photography forum. People here are generally concerned on some deeper level about producing high quality images (whatever that means to them). Generally speaking, this usually means that they're going to wind up needing or wanting a DSLR... because a DSLR is the best tool for the job. Can you paint a money using condiments and a paper towel? Possibly. Would it be easier to do with better tools? YES.

People here don't judge you for a lack of having a DSLR, people here will often tell you that you might get better results with one. There's no judgement in that... there is merely the offer of help.

You don't have a DSLR? Can't afford one? Don't want one? Fine. I 100% guarantee you that if you say that, most people here will go "ok, cool!" and then do their absolute best to help you. Sure, there are some idiots here that will come down on you regardless, but I can think of a whole LIST of some of the most capable and qualified people on this forum who will COMPLETELY accept your situation and do their very very best to help you.