To the newbies...

[SCraig]

So, I know I'm new here and all, and haven't even posted a single picture for cc, but honestly, why is there a beginners forum and gallery if you're telling everyone to Google for inforrmation and learn something about comp first? Isn't that the point of this place? Truly, I can see what you mean from some of the posts for cc I've seen -- which look worse than some people's family snapshots -- but that's gonna happen. Hopefully, it's the minority but your advice is bound to put people off and have them not want to post any pictures at all. And frankly, some of the cc remarks I've read are pretty lame.

It IS a beginner's forum. The problem is that many people who pulled their first camera out of the box a couple of hours ago haven't graduated to that lofty status yet. People can explain the answers to them but in many cases they haven't even read the manual yet and don't understand the answers. Tell them to use a higher shutter speed or a lower aperture or a higher ISO and they have no clue what that answer means. Tell them to meter for the highlights and you can almost see the look of bewilderment on their faces.

People need to take some of the responsibility for learning on themselves. When people who have been here a long time (I exclude myself from that status) have seen a dozen blown skies in one day they understandably get tired of answering the same question over and over. Many of the questions that I've seen could be answered if they poster would just look at the posts right in front of them. These people aren't being paid to answer questions, they don't get anything from it except satisfaction, and they don't owe anyone an explanation. They do it because they want to and because they enjoy seeing improvement from the people they have helped in the past.

Nobody is asking that people don't post their questions or ask for assistance with their photographs. That **IS** what this forum is for. But sometimes one has to do a little bit of homework for themselves to.

 

[JMBriggs]

I like to give cc. There are just too many people of late, that are asking the basics. If you think your photo is amazing and truly have put in the effort to research I would love to help you out and cc. I really only put this to help people realize that there are a lot of resources out there. I am sorry if I offended anyone by suggesting they research the basics of photography BEFORE they post for cc. If it makes you feel better go bash on some of my pictures!

 

[cgipson1]

I like to give cc. There are just too many people of late, that are asking the basics. If you think your photo is amazing and truly have put in the effort to research I would love to help you out and cc. I really only put this to help people realize that there are a lot of resources out there. I am sorry if I offended anyone by suggesting they research the basics of photography BEFORE they post for cc. If it makes you feel better go bash on some of my pictures!

very good advice!

 

[mjhoward]

On a side note for the newbs... I really enjoy the videos and information provided by Michael Zelbel of Smoking Strobes. Google and YouTube him... he provides some nice tutorials

 

[vandal]

I'm not offended by any means. I was just pointing out the irony of it all. After looking at more photos in here, I can see the point you're making and can imagine the feelings of exasperation some of you must feel seeing the same mistakes posted time and again. Maybe there should be a "I just got a camera and took these. Now what?" thread that just redirects everyone to a list of the stickies already here and some articles from Google. When I get a chance I'll throw some of my work up and you all can feel free to feed like a pack of wolves on some raw meat. Well, maybe it's more like rare or medium rare.

 

[unpopular]

I agree. Read the manual. Find where it tells you how to turn off auto exposure, turn off auto focus and turn on RAW files.

Then get a different book that will teach you about photography.

 

[SharedMemories]

I am a new to this forum and I want to thank you all for the great advice I have recieved here. I greatly appreciate all the time it takes to give the great advice u do. Happy new year to you all.

 

[cepwin]

Yes, I too would like to thank those who game me C+C over the past few weeks since I joined...really been helpful!

 

[naptime]

i know it's been said now..

but, what i gathered from the original post was not that newbies shouldnt post or ask questions, but rather, put in some work yourself.

you can't expect to come here and ask every question, if you arent going to do ANYTHING for yourself. self study, research, whatever. heck, opening the manual and reading it. you have to be willing to LEARN if you want people to teach.

but you cant expect people to do it for you.

it's a two way street.

a math teacher can't teach algebra if the class is going to sleep all day.

but, that one student in the back corner that stays awake, and listens, and tries, but still doesn't get it... guess what.. he's gonna get some afterschool attention from the teacher, because she knows he's trying to learn so she's gonna help him.

and if he's lucky she'll look like my math tea..... nevermind....... lol

 

[unpopular]

I knew I should have gone to sleep in algebra class. If i did, maybe I wouldn't have had to stay behind every day.

Wait no. That was detention.

 

[Derrel]

"The TPF Lords helpeth them that helpeth themselves." -- II Compact Flashians, 3:19.

"And the newbie did open and Read The Fine Manual, and lo, he was struck with knowledge that overflowed like beer at a fraternity party kegger." -- Book of Doah!!, 1:10

"And lo, after many years, the newbies did form, and coalesce into an army, ten thousand strong, and did overwhelm the Lords, and did crush them under their massive, uninformed feet,and it was sad." --Book of Downloading and Archiving, 6:45

 

[snowbear]

No offense taken here. As to searching, or rather the lack of searching, I've seen this on many other boards. I used to think it was generational (I'm in my early 50s) but I've seen plenty of us older folks doing the same thing. I guess it's just a lot easier to ask instead of researching yourself.

 

[pgriz]

@ JMBrigs – very good advice. Thank you.

@ naptime. There is a difference between ignorance and lack of knowledge. The former is a state of mind (as in “I don’t know and I don’t care&#8221, the latter is a temporary situation. Having read many of your posts, I’d put you squarely in the “don’t know yet, but working to learn” camp, and by the looks of your posts during your presence here, you’re moving ahead quite well. Congratulations, and may your road be full of pleasurable surprises.

@ vandal. Couple of points. The beginners who think they’re incredibly good generally fulfill the “incredible” part, but not the good part. One can’t learn anything if one thinks that they already get great results. Admission of lack of knowledge, openness to new information, new approaches, and new ways of looking at things create a learning situation. Smugness does not. You noted that some CC is pretty lame. You are right, but good critiquing is also a learned skill, and it has its own language. A good critique requires analysis, insight, some knowledge of prior art, some esthetic sense, and an ability to express clear ideas and thoughts. Not everyone has those skills, but they too,can be learned.

@ paigew: Why off-putting? If the motivation for posting photos in this forum is to get comments so that one can improve, doesn’t it stand to reason that the ones you want to get critiques from are the “senior”members with lots of experience? I’d be more inclined to pay attention to a good photographer telling me that my photos suck (and he/she will almost always tell me why), than having a hundred newbies tell me that my photo is “great”, because other than a feel-good moment, I will have learned nothing.

My own experience is that when I post a picture and explain what I’m trying to do, I get much better comments that focus on whether my approach has worked or not. So my advice for newbie posters is to give the viewers an idea of what was in your mind when the image was taken, how did you go about getting the idea across to the viewer, where did you think you succeeded, and where you are looking for help. This communicates vital info to the viewer as to the process you used, and allows a more informed response. Isn't that what we want? To be told that "well, your approach kinda works, but if you did this or that, you'll have much better results"?

 

[jaicatalano]

Well said JM Briggs. To further that youtube your camera and some of the tutorials. I spent 6 hours learning about my second camera (GH1) after making a huge mistake not knowing much about the exposure triangle. Mistakes are good. They make you work towards greater things.

 

[paigew]

I find this type of thread off-putting too. I mean, if the 'elders' don't want to respond to the influx of newbie posts then they don't have to click. It sort of makes it seem like newbie posts/ c&c are not welcome on this forum and that you need to be a certain level before you begin posting. Yes there is google, but is google going to tell you your photo sucks? Nope....and I would bet that most people who post pics truely think they are good when they post them (kinda like the bad singers on american idol ) I am grateful to the knowledgeable peeps on this forum who are here to help. They obviously enjoy helping others learn or else as I said, they wouldn't post.

@ paigew: Why off-putting? If the motivation for posting photos in this forum is to get comments so that one can improve, doesn’t it stand to reason that the ones you want to get critiques from are the “senior”members with lots of experience? I’d be more inclined to pay attention to a good photographer telling me that my photos suck (and he/she will almost always tell me why), than having a hundred newbies tell me that my photo is “great”, because other than a feel-good moment, I will have learned nothing.

I think you misunderstood my response. What I meant was that if newbie posts are so annoying then don't click or respond to them. And that I enjoy getting feedback from the senior members. I was saying that I only put up photos I am proud of, so, if they suck I would like to be told. Most people don't post photos for c&c that they themselves think are aweful. I would rather my photo be consturctively ripped apart than to have 10 "looks good" remarks. But threads like this make beginners feel like if we post too much we are a nuisance, when the reality is, if you are annoyed, then don't respond. It is not a requirement that you respond to posts. I actually took two (what I feel are my best so far) photos yesterday, but am not wanting to post for c&c because I don't want to 'annoy' people. I would love for someone more experienced to tell me "nope, not there yet" and open my eyes to what I am doing wrong. But instead I am looking for other forums to post on as to not "annoy" people who don't want to see newbie posts.