Upgrade from Nikon D700 to Nikon D4 or Canon 5D Mk III ? AF points..

[chrissyelle]

Been contemplating this upgrade for awhile. I do weddings, and outdoor engagement shoots involving strobes on occasion. Low light sensitivity without too much noise is definitely important.
Here's something that bothered me about the 5D that may not have been brought up before. I went to move around the focus point, and it didnt seem to cover much area in the viewfinder as it does on the D700 or D4. Was I imagining this?? The area the AF points covered seemed so concentrated in the center! What's up with that?

 

[DorkSterr]

Mk 3!!

 

[Derrel]

Yes, you're right about the 5D-III. Read owner Ken Rockwell's comments about the 5D-III AF system about 3/4 of the way down in his review, beginning under Speed and Autofocus sub-heads. Canon 5D Mark III Review

He confirms what you observed: the AF points are concentrated mostly in the center, and do not go upward or downward very far.

I guess the D700 and D4 do have somewhat larger AF area coverage, but it's still not as much as in Nikon APS-C bodies. I sometimes think that since so many Canon shooters just focus using the center AF point, Canon figured why bother with AF area coverage...most of our users focus right in the middle anyways, so they'll never even worry about it.

The 5D Classic, which I own and shot for years, has a VERY centrally-weighted, 9-point AF system that was basically just taken from their APS-C camera at the time, which was either the 20-D or 30-D, I can't remember which, and was very poor in terms of frame coverage. The 5D-II added some "invisible" AF assist points, but they were still all in that tight, expanded diamond shape. The 5D-III has a lot more AF points,in a new pattern, and a new focusing system. Canon's Digital Learning Center has a guidebook devoted specifically to the new 61-point AF system.

Want to master the EOS 5D Mark III/1D X AF system? Get the AF settings guidebook! | CanonWatch CanonWatch

This page has a nice shot of the 5D-III's AF sensor placement.

 

[chrissyelle]

Mk 3!!

Wait... Why are you recommending upgrading to the Mk III if you have a D4 and all Nikon gear?

 

[chrissyelle]

Yes, you're right about the 5D-III. Read owner Ken Rockwell's comments about the 5D-III AF system about 3/4 of the way down in his review, beginning under Speed and Autofocus sub-heads. Canon 5D Mark III Review

He confirms what you observed: the AF points are concentrated mostly in the center, and do not go upward or downward very far.

I guess the D700 and D4 do have somewhat larger AF area coverage, but it's still not as much as in Nikon APS-C bodies. I sometimes think that since so many Canon shooters just focus using the center AF point, Canon figured why bother with AF area coverage...most of our users focus right in the middle anyways, so they'll never even worry about it.

The 5D Classic, which I own and shot for years, has a VERY centrally-weighted, 9-point AF system that was basically just taken from their APS-C camera at the time, which was either the 20-D or 30-D, I can't remember which, and was very poor in terms of frame coverage. The 5D-II added some "invisible" AF assist points, but they were still all in that tight, expanded diamond shape. The 5D-III has a lot more AF points,in a new pattern, and a new focusing system. Canon's Digital Learning Center has a guidebook devoted specifically to the new 61-point AF system.

Want to master the EOS 5D Mark III/1D X AF system? Get the AF settings guidebook! | CanonWatch CanonWatch

This page has a nice shot of the 5D-III's AF sensor placement.

What kind of photographer always focuses directly in the center? That is just bizarre..

 

[Derrel]

A lot of Canon users brag about focusing in the center.

 

[Gavjenks]

Wait... Why are you recommending upgrading to the Mk III if you have a D4 and all Nikon gear?

Nikon has a slightly longer flange to focal distance, so nikon lenses can all be adapted to canon backs (not the other way around). A nice, high quality adapter will run you $250 or so. Obviously you can't use lenses that require in-camera motor focus drives with AF, etc. etc., but the optics will work, and you will have full infinity focus. I THINK that basic AF on lenses that have their own focus motors will still work, and metering and image stabilization and all that jazz, but don't quote me on that.

What kind of photographer always focuses directly in the center? That is just bizarre..

I do. And it confuses me just as much why anybody ever uses any other focus points. It's either:
A) Really fiddly and distracting to select a specific one (takes way more time than just darting the camera to point at what i want to focus and darting it back to compose) OR
B) out of my control what gets focused if I set it to auto-select, which leads to botched photos when it focuses on something stupid.

What's the advantage? The only time I can imagine using it would be if I'm doing an entire shoot where the focal point is always in the upper left for some reason for every shot... I can't think of why that would ever be.

Or if youre shooting with a pristine white studio backdrop or something, where it will never get confused about what you intended to focus on. Which I don't do, but that would make sense if you do.

 

[jake337]

Nikon has a slightly longer flange to focal distance, so nikon lenses can all be adapted to canon backs (not the other way around). A nice, high quality adapter will run you $250 or so. Obviously you can't use lenses that require in-camera motor focus drives with AF, etc. etc., but the optics will work, and you will have full infinity focus. I THINK that basic AF on lenses that have their own focus motors will still work, and metering and image stabilization and all that jazz, but don't quote me on that.

I do. And it confuses me just as much why anybody ever uses any other focus points. It's either:
A) Really fiddly and distracting to select a specific one (takes way more time than just darting the camera to point at what i want to focus and darting it back to compose) OR
B) out of my control what gets focused if I set it to auto-select, which leads to botched photos when it focuses on something stupid.

What's the advantage? The only time I can imagine using it would be if I'm doing an entire shoot where the focal point is always in the upper left for some reason for every shot... I can't think of why that would ever be.

Or if youre shooting with a pristine white studio backdrop or something, where it will never get confused about what you intended to focus on. Which I don't do, but that would make sense if you do.

I choose my focal point while framing. I place it on the eye(s). The thumbpad to change focal points(D90) is placed whet my thumb rests naturally. I don't even think about it. So it isn't fiddly or distracting.

 

[Sw1tchFX]

I shoot both systems on a very, very regular basis, with other photogs. Here are my conclusions:

Canon's got more convenient lenses and better ergonomics.
Nikon's got better sensors and flash systems.

5D3 with a 16-35, 50 1.2, and 70-200 2.8 with a 580EX (not the 600EX), is bulletproof. Fast broad range wide, ultra fast normal, sharpest midrange tele on the planet. Hook a quantum to the 580 and fiddle with power settings, you're set.

D4 with a 14-24, 50 1.4, and a 70-200 2.8 with a SB-910 (not a 900), is also bulletproof. Monkey wide angle, Fast normal, ultra reliable telephoto. Plug it all in and it all just works so long as you don't shoot at the 35mm FL.


The 5D3 is super quiet, light weight, and is just right in just about any situation. The D4 is night vision in color, fast as f*ck, and the files can take a serious beating in post. Either way, you can't go wrong with either.




Here's what grinds my gears though...

Nikon has no decent 16/17/18-35 f/2.8. The 17-35's AF isn't that great, the 14-24 takes up too much space and weight nor is it long enough, and the 16-35VR is too slow when shooting in available darkness. Nikon's LCD is abysmal for 2013 when it comes to exposure and color accuracy.

Canon's sensors can't take underexposure to save their life. in LR, push the exposure up just one stop and suddenly there's atrocious banding in the shadows. Also, although the 16-35 is bright and very reliable, optically it sucks anywhere but the center.


You buy into Nikon for the infallible flash system, speed, and fantastic file quality.
You buy into Canon for the lenses, color, and quietness.

 

[Sarcasmonaut]

Yes, you're right about the 5D-III. Read owner Ken Rockwell's comments about the 5D-III AF system about 3/4 of the way down in his review, beginning under Speed and Autofocus sub-heads. Canon 5D Mark III Review

He confirms what you observed: the AF points are concentrated mostly in the center, and do not go upward or downward very far.

I guess the D700 and D4 do have somewhat larger AF area coverage, but it's still not as much as in Nikon APS-C bodies. I sometimes think that since so many Canon shooters just focus using the center AF point, Canon figured why bother with AF area coverage...most of our users focus right in the middle anyways, so they'll never even worry about it.

The 5D Classic, which I own and shot for years, has a VERY centrally-weighted, 9-point AF system that was basically just taken from their APS-C camera at the time, which was either the 20-D or 30-D, I can't remember which, and was very poor in terms of frame coverage. The 5D-II added some "invisible" AF assist points, but they were still all in that tight, expanded diamond shape. The 5D-III has a lot more AF points,in a new pattern, and a new focusing system. Canon's Digital Learning Center has a guidebook devoted specifically to the new 61-point AF system.

Want to master the EOS 5D Mark III/1D X AF system? Get the AF settings guidebook! | CanonWatch CanonWatch

This page has a nice shot of the 5D-III's AF sensor placement.

What kind of photographer always focuses directly in the center? That is just bizarre..

Ken Rockwell is a bit of a tool. How he became such a go-to source of info for so many people is one of the internet's great mysteries.

 

[Sarcasmonaut]

Been contemplating this upgrade for awhile. I do weddings, and outdoor engagement shoots involving strobes on occasion. Low light sensitivity without too much noise is definitely important.
Here's something that bothered me about the 5D that may not have been brought up before. I went to move around the focus point, and it didnt seem to cover much area in the viewfinder as it does on the D700 or D4. Was I imagining this?? The area the AF points covered seemed so concentrated in the center! What's up with that?

Why are you looking into the D4 over the D800?