Upgrade path to full frame - DSLR vs. mirrorless

petrochemist

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DSLRs phase detect sensors are also under an IR block filter

I don't shoot IR, but I'm not sure I agree with this, as the viewfinder uses an AF IR assist light in low light. Having an IR filter on the focus sensor would negate it's use, would it not?
Most lenses focus IR in a significantly different place I can't see how IR focus assist can be reliable. Their focus assist may be barely in the IR, but with many lenses the difference at 700nm is already significant. IMO focusing at the wrong wavelength defeats the purpose of AF!
 
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adamhiram

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There are a few things you have to get used to with the mirrorless. First, the flash only fires on "single shot" mode. Nikon, about two years ago, asked me to test drive the Z7 and I noted this when using the camera for the week and asked their staff here in Shanghai why this was and they explained that it was to avoid sensor damage. The flash, if fired rapidly, will literally cause the sensor to burn up.
Can you elaborate on this a bit more? Last year, I updated my studio strobes to 400W/s units to get better recycle times, and sometimes use continuous shooting. At 1/8 power I can shoot reliably at 4fps, and at 1/32 power I can shoot as high as 10fps (which I have never used, but it works!). Are you saying that in continuous shooting, a Z6/Z7 will only fire the flash on the first shot?
 

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There are a few things you have to get used to with the mirrorless. First, the flash only fires on "single shot" mode. Nikon, about two years ago, asked me to test drive the Z7 and I noted this when using the camera for the week and asked their staff here in Shanghai why this was and they explained that it was to avoid sensor damage. The flash, if fired rapidly, will literally cause the sensor to burn up.
Can you elaborate on this a bit more? Last year, I updated my studio strobes to 400W/s units to get better recycle times, and sometimes use continuous shooting. At 1/8 power I can shoot reliably at 4fps, and at 1/32 power I can shoot as high as 10fps (which I have never used, but it works!). Are you saying that in continuous shooting, a Z6/Z7 will only fire the flash on the first shot?

No, I am saying what I said above, you can not fire continuously with a strobe. The camera won't allow it because if you do, it burns the sensor up. So, you would not be able to do as you have described here.

Cordially,

Mark
 

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There are a few things you have to get used to with the mirrorless. First, the flash only fires on "single shot" mode. Nikon, about two years ago, asked me to test drive the Z7 and I noted this when using the camera for the week and asked their staff here in Shanghai why this was and they explained that it was to avoid sensor damage. The flash, if fired rapidly, will literally cause the sensor to burn up.
Can you elaborate on this a bit more? Last year, I updated my studio strobes to 400W/s units to get better recycle times, and sometimes use continuous shooting. At 1/8 power I can shoot reliably at 4fps, and at 1/32 power I can shoot as high as 10fps (which I have never used, but it works!). Are you saying that in continuous shooting, a Z6/Z7 will only fire the flash on the first shot?

No, I am saying what I said above, you can not fire continuously with a strobe. The camera won't allow it because if you do, it burns the sensor up. So, you would not be able to do as you have described here.

Cordially,

Mark
 

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There are a few things you have to get used to with the mirrorless. First, the flash only fires on "single shot" mode. Nikon, about two years ago, asked me to test drive the Z7 and I noted this when using the camera for the week and asked their staff here in Shanghai why this was and they explained that it was to avoid sensor damage. The flash, if fired rapidly, will literally cause the sensor to burn up.
Can you elaborate on this a bit more? Last year, I updated my studio strobes to 400W/s units to get better recycle times, and sometimes use continuous shooting. At 1/8 power I can shoot reliably at 4fps, and at 1/32 power I can shoot as high as 10fps (which I have never used, but it works!). Are you saying that in continuous shooting, a Z6/Z7 will only fire the flash on the first shot?

No, I am saying what I said above, you can not fire continuously with a strobe. The camera won't allow it because if you do, it burns the sensor up. So, you would not be able to do as you have described here.

Cordially,

Mark
Now I'm confused. My Z6 seems to be able to shoot as quickly as my flash and studio strobes will recycle, and I believe the HSS works too. Why would the sensor burn? If I'm shooting a model in the studio with flash then she's reflecting no more light on to the sensor than if I shoot her outside in the sun. What exactly can't I do with flash and the Z6?
 
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adamhiram

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you can not fire continuously with a strobe. The camera won't allow it
That's a very interesting limitation, so one shutter press per flash. It sounds like it will still trigger the flash as fast as I can press the shutter button, but if I hold it down for continuous shooting it will only trigger the flash once? For reference, I'm using Godox monolights with an XPro trigger.
 

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Mark, you mean the in-camera flash can not fire repeatedly without damaging the sensor, correct?
 
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adamhiram

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you mean the in-camera flash can not fire repeatedly without damaging the sensor, correct?
I don't think the Z6 and Z7 have a built-in pop-up flash. That seems like an odd limitation to trigger a remote flash.
 

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Thank you, this is very helpful. Battery life was another big concern I had - the Z6/Z7 are rated for something like 300 shots per charge, which might not be enough o make it through a full shoot in some cases. I've heard in practice it is much better, but I'm used to around 1000 shots before my battery runs out as long as I don't chimp too much. What has your experience been like?

Full frame has been great, I'm loving the format. I frequently shoot in challenging lighting conditions and the larger sensor just gives that little more leeway. Putting some quality glass on has helped but even background tranitions are smoother and less granular. I'm definately getting better quality raw files so I'm happy. Though I wouldn't rule out confirmation bias in my conclusion ;)
 

ac12

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Maybe what Mark means is the processing to get the image off the sensor into the memory.
Although I don't know how that differs from the EVF being on, unless there is less sensor data going to the EVF so there isn't as much data to process and shove through the pipe.
 

Pixeldawg1

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My understanding from Nikon is ANY strobe. I will double-check this though. I don't do much studio work and in my regular work, I generally use fill-flash and use a Nikon SB-5000 strobe, which is quite nice and does an excellent job, but will only shoot 1 frame at a time. Nikon has designed it this way because once again, multi-burst flash firing burns the sensor up.
 

Pixeldawg1

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OK... in doing a check of my z7, if I tab to the "Information" ("i") setting on the back of the camera, and go to "Release Mode", on "Continuious High" (Extended) the flash "ready" button shuts off and it will not fire the strobe, but the camera still works. However, if you go to normal "High" and "Low" the "Ready" light on the flash lights again. In single, no problem. In High, it is missing frames while the flash is set to 1/64th power. This may be a change that was made with firmwear releases (which I have kept current). In the model I used, which was a beta version of the first version of the Z7 firmwear, they did not allow the flash to be fired on anything but "single", and it still seems sketchy to me on "high" mode. I have sent a WeChat to my buddy at Nikon asking for their response to this and have not heard back, but when I do, I will post their response here.
 

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you mean the in-camera flash can not fire repeatedly without damaging the sensor, correct?
I don't think the Z6 and Z7 have a built-in pop-up flash. That seems like an odd limitation to trigger a remote flash.

Correct, they do not. Just a hot-shoe for an on-camera flash. I use an SB-5000 on mine.
 
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adamhiram

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I have sent a WeChat to my buddy at Nikon asking for their response to this and have not heard back, but when I do, I will post their response here.
Thanks for the follow-up, definitely appreciate it! It certainly doesn't sound like a dealbreaker either way, I don't think I've ever actually done a studio shoot with continuous shooting. It just seems like an odd limitation. In your example, it sounds more like the on-camera speed light just can't cycle that fast.
 

Pixeldawg1

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OK... Nikon responded and the exact quote is "It is the same for in-studio strobes as it's the default settings". And again, he reiterated that Nikon does NOT recommend quick, multiple bursts as it effects the sensor life significantly. Does not mean it can't be done, I suppose. As for me, I (mostly) use the SB-5000, so will continue to shoot single frame. As far as the strobe not being able to keep up, Fresh batteries and on 1/64th power, so I think it is more the camera as opposed to the flash. Your mileage may vary though. All that being said, the camera is magnificent if you can work around the few little quirks. Any more questions about this, hollar'. :)
 
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adamhiram

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A potential dealbreaker I just came upon with the Z6 is the diopter adjustment. I strongly dislike wearing glasses when I shoot, so I typically use a corrective eyepiece to get to around -5. With my D500, I have it set to -2 internally with a -3 corrective eyepiece. Before that I had a D5100 set to around -1 with a -4 corrective eyepiece. The problem with the Z6 (and Z7) is that it goes to -4 internally, but there do not appear to be any corrective eyepiece accessories available. @HowdyMark (or anyone else), any additional information on this?
 

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