Upgrade path to full frame - DSLR vs. mirrorless

[Pixeldawg1]

Build quality is often a synonym for made of metal. Many modern lenses use industrial plastics even for things like barrels. I have a Tamron 90 mm that is probably 30 years old and the barrel is made of industrial plastic which is in most cases more shock resistant and dent proof than metal.

And I have read numerous articles where people be moan the quote build quality of a lens or of a camera when what they really mean is that the maker has used PVC or some type of other modern industrial plastic instead of the traditional metal or metal alloys of yesteryear.

So when someone says Nikon Z lenses have the build quality of Samyang,I really don't take that type of comment seriously.

Right. You and I understand this because we are ancient and remember Nikon F's. But, to the beginner, "build quality" can mean something quite different, and can (in my universe anyway) translate to a cheaper quality in an overall sense, which isn't true. And while I don't take it seriously either, as an educator, I also understand how this translates to someone with less experience and (again as an educator) I fully understand that I don't know everything, so am always on the lookout for new information that is relevant to these kinds of situations. So, I prefer to hear the reasoning and then make a more informed decision regarding the validity of the information/opinion. All of that being said... ultimately, you are right in that much of it can't be taken seriously.

Cordially,

Mark

 

[photoflyer]

I feel for the engineers. If they make it durable (high quality) it is often heavy...and people complain...then they make it from exotic materials and it is super expensive....and people complain.

 

[Derrel]

I have perhaps the worst build quality Nikkor lens that I have ever seen... The 1990s made 28 to 80 mm afd. This zoom hasahas plastic lens mount and a wobbly front barrel, and yet it is surprisingly sharp for a zoom lens.

It is a little shy of 30 years old, and yet it is still making good pictures. I last used it extensively in 2017 with the D800,and even though it is a low dollar lens it made surprisingly sharp images on the D800.

 

[ac12]

Build quality is often a synonym for made of metal. Many modern lenses use industrial plastics even for things like barrels. I have a Tamron 90 mm that is probably 30 years old and the barrel is made of industrial plastic which is in most cases more shock resistant and dent proof than metal.

And I have read numerous articles where people be moan the quote build quality of a lens or of a camera when what they really mean is that the maker has used PVC or some type of other modern industrial plastic instead of the traditional metal or metal alloys of yesteryear.

So when someone says Nikon Z lenses have the build quality of Samyang,I really don't take that type of comment seriously.

And modern plastics/composites are LIGHTER than metal.

Olympus made the barrels of their pro lenses of metal, and I personally do not like the weight penalty of that decision.
Even the grip is metal. And what happens when your hand get sweaty, well it slips on that metal grip. I am constantly wiping my hand on my pants, to dry it off, so it won't slip

 

[adamhiram]

I decided to pull the trigger and pickup a Z6 with an FTZ adapter. I spoke with a number of working professionals who switched to a Z6/Z7 and echoed the same positive sentiments as those on this thread. If I decide to keep it, I have a number of acceptable offers lined up for my current gear, and figure I can use my existing lenses adapted for a while. My hope is that some of the Z mount lenses will be discounted around Black Friday, and when some of the faster lenses are released, hopefully people start selling off their f/1.8 Z mount primes.

1. Order Z6 from someplace with a good return policy, see if the built-in diopter adjustment is sufficient
2. If not, try to Frankenstein together a DK-20C correction eyepiece into a DK-29 rubber eyecup. I give it a 50/50 chance it’ll work, but it’s only $20 worth of parts, so why not give it a shot
3. Either keep the Z6 or look into DSLR options

Z6 bodies are currently on backorder everywhere, so it may be a few weeks before I know for certain. Thanks for the input, and wish me luck!

 

[Pixeldawg1]

I decided to pull the trigger and pickup a Z6 with an FTZ adapter. I spoke with a number of working professionals who switched to a Z6/Z7 and echoed the same positive sentiments as those on this thread. If I decide to keep it, I have a number of acceptable offers lined up for my current gear, and figure I can use my existing lenses adapted for a while. My hope is that some of the Z mount lenses will be discounted around Black Friday, and when some of the faster lenses are released, hopefully people start selling off their f/1.8 Z mount primes.

1. Order Z6 from someplace with a good return policy, see if the built-in diopter adjustment is sufficient
2. If not, try to Frankenstein together a DK-20C correction eyepiece into a DK-29 rubber eyecup. I give it a 50/50 chance it’ll work, but it’s only $20 worth of parts, so why not give it a shot
3. Either keep the Z6 or look into DSLR options

Z6 bodies are currently on backorder everywhere, so it may be a few weeks before I know for certain. Thanks for the input, and wish me luck!

I think you'll be pretty pleased with the Z6. Make sure you shoot RAW to get the most out of it. The 6 is actually a better choice if you're going to shoot video and with about $1,000 you can upgrade it to a 10bit video camera (The next model capable of doing this is about $90k, so considering that, the Z6 is a bargain!). If you have any questions and I can help you, please hollar'. Happy shooting!

 

[SquarePeg]

I decided to pull the trigger and pickup a Z6 with an FTZ adapter. I spoke with a number of working professionals who switched to a Z6/Z7 and echoed the same positive sentiments as those on this thread. If I decide to keep it, I have a number of acceptable offers lined up for my current gear, and figure I can use my existing lenses adapted for a while. My hope is that some of the Z mount lenses will be discounted around Black Friday, and when some of the faster lenses are released, hopefully people start selling off their f/1.8 Z mount primes.

1. Order Z6 from someplace with a good return policy, see if the built-in diopter adjustment is sufficient
2. If not, try to Frankenstein together a DK-20C correction eyepiece into a DK-29 rubber eyecup. I give it a 50/50 chance it’ll work, but it’s only $20 worth of parts, so why not give it a shot
3. Either keep the Z6 or look into DSLR options

Z6 bodies are currently on backorder everywhere, so it may be a few weeks before I know for certain. Thanks for the input, and wish me luck!

Congrats! If you are in the US (which I think you are?) check out the Nikon USA Buy/Swap/Sell group on Facebook. I had no trouble selling most of my Nikon gear there when I switched to Fuji - and for much more than was offered by the online reseller sites.

 

[adamhiram]

Congrats! If you are in the US (which I think you are?) check out the Nikon USA Buy/Swap/Sell group on Facebook. I had no trouble selling most of my Nikon gear there when I switched to Fuji - and for much more than was offered by the online reseller sites.

Thanks! Do you recall the name of the FB group? I see one called "Nikon Equipment Sales or Trade" with 14k users, not sure if that's the same one. Were you comfortable selling through that group with low risk of fraud? As it stands, I can unload my current DX gear for about $1500 pretty much anywhere with zero effort, but I also noticed it sells used for about $1k more than that in comparable condition. I was debating paying for a FredMiranda buy/sell membership to try to sell there before just shipping it off, but to be honest I just didn't want the hassle.

Edit: It may also be worth noting that I have not had any luck selling used gear on here, and eBay has produced about the same selling price as selling back to the usual places, with additional overhead costs and effort. While it pains me to leave so much value on the table for a middleman, it's also a lot of effort to piece out, especially during a pandemic when I don't want to be in a post office a half dozen times.

 

[SquarePeg]

Congrats! If you are in the US (which I think you are?) check out the Nikon USA Buy/Swap/Sell group on Facebook. I had no trouble selling most of my Nikon gear there when I switched to Fuji - and for much more than was offered by the online reseller sites.

Thanks! Do you recall the name of the FB group? I see one called "Nikon Equipment Sales or Trade" with 14k users, not sure if that's the same one. Were you comfortable selling through that group with low risk of fraud? As it stands, I can unload my current DX gear for about $1500 pretty much anywhere with zero effort, but I also noticed it sells used for about $1k more than that in comparable condition. I was debating paying for a FredMiranda buy/sell membership to try to sell there before just shipping it off, but to be honest I just didn't want the hassle.

Edit: It may also be worth noting that I have not had any luck selling used gear on here, and eBay has produced about the same selling price as selling back to the usual places, with additional overhead costs and effort. While it pains me to leave so much value on the table for a middleman, it's also a lot of effort to piece out, especially during a pandemic when I don't want to be in a post office a half dozen times.

I thought it was Nikon USA... but I think I confused it with the Fuji USA Buy/Swap/Sell group. Haven't had Nikon in a while. I am currently still a member of NCDG - Nikon Buy & Sell Group which says it is USA based so that must be it. There was a "Feedback" post that you could search someone's name to see if they had positive reviews for previous transactions. When buying or selling I will stalk the person on FB and the web a bit to make sure they are a legitimate photographer/hobbyist and not someone scamming. I used PayPal for my transactions and never had an issue. I believe @JonA_CT used the group to sell off some Nikon gear during his fling with Fuji. I also sold a few items locally on Facebook Marketplace and via Craigslist - cash in person only. Our local PD has a spot in their lobby where people can meet for a safe transaction - probably not a great option during the pandemic it's likely closed...

 

[adamhiram]

@SquarePeg thanks for the follow-up! It was easy enough to separate the purchase of new gear from selling my current gear, so at least there's no rush. The new body is on back-order anyway, so it may be a while before I can even evaluate if it's the right option for me. At least the order has been placed and I have some decent options when selling.

 

[adamhiram]

I think you'll be pretty pleased with the Z6. Make sure you shoot RAW to get the most out of it. The 6 is actually a better choice if you're going to shoot video and with about $1,000 you can upgrade it to a 10bit video camera (The next model capable of doing this is about $90k, so considering that, the Z6 is a bargain!). If you have any questions and I can help you, please hollar'. Happy shooting!

Out of curiosity, have you noticed any loss of sharpness from the OLPF/AA filter? I was searching for information on quirks with this body and what has been improved with software updates, and a recurring theme seems to be alarmism over the inclusion of an AA filter. In my experience, it really doesn't make that big of a difference; I certainly didn't notice any major increase in sharpness when I got my D500, other than a better hit rate due to better continuous AF.

Incidentally, it looks like it is only about $200 USD to upgrade a Z6/Z7 to 12-bit ProRes RAW. Probably not something I would bother with, but not terribly expensive either.

 

[Pixeldawg1]

I think you'll be pretty pleased with the Z6. Make sure you shoot RAW to get the most out of it. The 6 is actually a better choice if you're going to shoot video and with about $1,000 you can upgrade it to a 10bit video camera (The next model capable of doing this is about $90k, so considering that, the Z6 is a bargain!). If you have any questions and I can help you, please hollar'. Happy shooting!

Out of curiosity, have you noticed any loss of sharpness from the OLPF/AA filter? I was searching for information on quirks with this body and what has been improved with software updates, and a recurring theme seems to be alarmism over the inclusion of an AA filter. In my experience, it really doesn't make that big of a difference; I certainly didn't notice any major increase in sharpness when I got my D500, other than a better hit rate due to better continuous AF.

Incidentally, it looks like it is only about $200 USD to upgrade a Z6/Z7 to 12-bit ProRes RAW. Probably not something I would bother with, but not terribly expensive either.

My understanding of these filters is that they give a slight blur to the image prior to capture by the sensor to reduce the Aliasing. I am placing an image here from my Z7 that I shot a couple of months ago and can tell you this image is typical of what I get with my Z7. And unless you are specifically set up in a lab that can measure these kinds of issues, I typically consider this "user error". So, in my humble opinion, I consider this a non-issue. Not familiar with the 12 bit raw thingy, but would be interested in looking at it. If I remember correctly (and I could be wrong here... so take this with a lump of salt...) the Z7 can shoot 16 bit RAW, so shooting 12 bit would seem a step backwards. Someone correct me if I am wrong, please.

Here's what I shot... You are welcome to download and give it a closer look if you like. No editing or other reproduction though.

Cordially,

Mark

 

[adamhiram]

I am placing an image here from my Z7 that I shot a couple of months ago and can tell you this image is typical of what I get with my Z7

That's right, you said you shoot a Z7, which doesn't have the AA filter. I don't think it's a dealbreaker, but of course I plan to take some comparison shots once it ships. Beautiful photo!

If I remember correctly (and I could be wrong here... so take this with a lump of salt...) the Z7 can shoot 16 bit RAW, so shooting 12 bit would seem a step backwards

Yup, the Z6 shoots in 14-bit Raw as well. What I was referring to was the firmware upgrade you mentioned to upgrade the video capabilities, which I don't have much use for.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[photoflyer]

I know this is a Nikon thread but the AA filter topic is timely for me. The Canon R is 30.3 megapixels and the R6 is 20.1. The later does not have the AA filter. Recently someone online did a sharpness comparison between the two and the R6 is easily equal to and certainly better at high ISO relative to its higher mpix cousin. I just got the R6 and this explains why I am amazed at how much I can crop an image and still get good sharpness -- of course none of this matters without good glass.

There are certainly design considerations when determining whether to include one or not. I would like to know those details.

 

[Pixeldawg1]

I am placing an image here from my Z7 that I shot a couple of months ago and can tell you this image is typical of what I get with my Z7

That's right, you said you shoot a Z7, which doesn't have the AA filter. I don't think it's a dealbreaker, but of course I plan to take some comparison shots once it ships. Beautiful photo!

If I remember correctly (and I could be wrong here... so take this with a lump of salt...) the Z7 can shoot 16 bit RAW, so shooting 12 bit would seem a step backwards

Yup, the Z6 shoots in 14-bit Raw as well. What I was referring to was the firmware upgrade you mentioned to upgrade the video capabilities, which I don't have much use for.

Thanks again for all your help!

Adam, do you know, is there a reason why the 6 has this and not the 7? The 7 has twice the megapixels (48) as the 6 does, so in my little universe, it seems as if it would be reversed. Curious. And the video upgrade is actually a hardware upgrade by a third party source. Does not involve the firmware within the camera.

Mark