Using my SB700 with Nikon D300 and motion blur problems

[gossamer]

Hi,
I have a D300 with an SB700 and a 16-85mm lens. I don't understand why, under most conditions, the shutter speed seems to be locked at 1/60th, even when in shutter priority, for example. I'm relatively new to using a speedlight.

Someone had mentioned to me this could be changed in the camera, but I can't figure out which setting it would be, or more importantly, why it chooses to do this in the first place. Does the camera expect that the flash will compensate for it? Is it some restriction I have in place in the flash?

I've tried shutter and aperture priority, as well as various ISO speeds.

Using a 1/60th with the flash resulted in too much motion blur when taking pics of my daughter playing in the leaves :-(

A related question - when the camera is set to shutter priority, and the rest of the settings aren't at the extremes, how can it produce a picture that isn't exposed properly?

Thanks for any ideas.
Dave

 

[qleak]

http://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/dslr/D300_en.pdf

page 288: Option e1 flash sync speed.

Is it set at 1/60? Try changing to 1/250

Best,

-Q

 

[astroNikon]

essentially 1/60th of a second is too slow a shutter speed to stop a pictures of someone playing.
You have to have a faster shutter speed such as the 1/250 above recommedation.

at 1/60 you probably get motion blur from the object (your daughter) moving and also your own movement. Most people cannot take a picture of a brick at 1/60 without getting motion blur from hand movement. you'd be amazed how much people move the camera from just pushing the shutter button.

 

[gossamer]

essentially 1/60th of a second is too slow a shutter speed to stop a pictures of someone playing.
You have to have a faster shutter speed such as the 1/250 above recommedation.

at 1/60 you probably get motion blur from the object (your daughter) moving and also your own movement. Most people cannot take a picture of a brick at 1/60 without getting motion blur from hand movement. you'd be amazed how much people move the camera from just pushing the shutter button.

Yes, that I already knew. I guess my question was more about why the camera would be fixed at such a speed in the first place. Why are these limitations in place in the first place?

Why does the addition of a flash somehow affect the shutter-priority setting (and aperture-priority, actually) ability to adjust to the proper exposure? Why should it be restricted?

Thanks guys,
Dave

 

[astroNikon]

Normally, when you introduce a flash to stop motion you want it to overpower the available light with a fast shutter.
If it doesn't with a long shutter you will still get motion.

For an extreme example. In a dark room. set exposure to 5 seconds. press shutter, walk someplace with the flash in front of the camera, and initiate the flash pointed at you.
You just took a quick photo of yourself in the dark but fully exposed (assuming other settings good) because the flash was more light than the ambient.

Other extreme - Out side in the bright sunshine. If you set the shutter to 5 seconds and did the same thing, the flash would not overpower the sun. You would get a 5 second exposure and whatever was walking around would get ghosting into the photo.

With shutter fast enough, and if darker outside, the flash will stop the motion.

in portrait stuff the flash is used to fill in dark shadows and stuff.

but you still need that faster shutter speed to stop motion in normal lighting conditions.
if those examples make sense.

 

[gossamer]

http://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/dslr/D300_en.pdf

page 288: Option e1 flash sync speed.

Is it set at 1/60? Try changing to 1/250

Best,

-Q

There's also a setting for 1/320 (Auto FP). What does the auto FP mean? Why wouldn't I just want to set it to 1/320s instead of 1/250s? Hmm.. after reading a bit, it looks like that means the shutter speed isn't restricted by any bounds when the SB700 is also used.

The flash shutter speed option is set for 1/60s. Does that matter?

 

[qleak]

Yes, that I already knew. I guess my question was more about why the camera would be fixed at such a speed in the first place. Why are these limitations in place in the first place?

Why does the addition of a flash somehow affect the shutter-priority setting (and aperture-priority, actually) ability to adjust to the proper exposure? Why should it be restricted?

The camera is restricting the shutter speed based on the flash sync speed. The maximum that can be set is the setting I mentioned. Did you find it? Did it work?

You should probably watch a video to understand how a focal plane shutter works. There are many. At slower speeds, the first curtain opens then the 2nd curtain closes. At faster speeds the 2nd curtain starts closing before the 1st curtain is all the way open. Basically, just a slit is exposed at a time.

The duration of your sb700 is at most 1/300 of a second (t.1 time at 1/1 manual power). If you expose at a higher shutter speed it will only expose the portion of the photo that has the slit open. Usually leaving portions of the photo unexposed to the flash. Your camera "protects" you from this by allowing you to set a maximum xsync speed.

 

[qleak]

There's also a setting for 1/320 (Auto FP). What does the auto FP mean? Why wouldn't I just want to set it to 1/320s instead of 1/250s? Hmm.. after reading a bit, it looks like that means the shutter speed isn't restricted by any bounds when the SB700 is also used.

The flash shutter speed option is set for 1/60s. Does that matter?

FP is the high speed sync mode. Basically the flash strobes lower power lights as the slit moves across the sensor. The loss of power grows exponentially as the shutter speed increases. But it can be handy. I'd recommend you start with 1/250 and only use the FP mode if you need to kill really strong ambient light

 

[gossamer]

There's also a setting for 1/320 (Auto FP). What does the auto FP mean? Why wouldn't I just want to set it to 1/320s instead of 1/250s? Hmm.. after reading a bit, it looks like that means the shutter speed isn't restricted by any bounds when the SB700 is also used.

The flash shutter speed option is set for 1/60s. Does that matter?

FP is the high speed sync mode. Basically the flash strobes lower power lights as the slit moves across the sensor. The loss of power grows exponentially as the shutter speed increases. But it can be handy. I'd recommend you start with 1/250 and only use the FP mode if you need to kill really strong ambient light

Okay, will do. 1/250 is sufficient to stop motion blur always, correct?

I guess I still don't understand why, with just the addition of more light, the shutter is so restricted. Are you referring to front-curtain sync here? Is that what FP is?

How does the flash affect ISO?

 

[gossamer]

Normally, when you introduce a flash to stop motion you want it to overpower the available light with a fast shutter.
If it doesn't with a long shutter you will still get motion.

For an extreme example. In a dark room. set exposure to 5 seconds. press shutter, walk someplace with the flash in front of the camera, and initiate the flash pointed at you.
You just took a quick photo of yourself in the dark but fully exposed (assuming other settings good) because the flash was more light than the ambient.

The problem I've had in this scenario in the past is with focusing. I'm unable to focus on the subject because it's so dark.

The other problem I have is with exposure before the flash. If I am shooting in manual mode, how do I set up shutter and aperture for the shot to be properly exposed in the dark when the flash will then affect that exposure? Hopefully that's clear.

Other extreme - Out side in the bright sunshine. If you set the shutter to 5 seconds and did the same thing, the flash would not overpower the sun. You would get a 5 second exposure and whatever was walking around would get ghosting into the photo.

Yes, I do understand that scenario.

 

[gossamer]

Yes, that I already knew. I guess my question was more about why the camera would be fixed at such a speed in the first place. Why are these limitations in place in the first place?

Why does the addition of a flash somehow affect the shutter-priority setting (and aperture-priority, actually) ability to adjust to the proper exposure? Why should it be restricted?

The camera is restricting the shutter speed based on the flash sync speed. The maximum that can be set is the setting I mentioned. Did you find it? Did it work?

Yes, I found the option. I'll try it during the day tomorrow.

You should probably watch a video to understand how a focal plane shutter works. There are many. At slower speeds, the first curtain opens then the 2nd curtain closes. At faster speeds the 2nd curtain starts closing before the 1st curtain is all the way open. Basically, just a slit is exposed at a time.

I searched youtube for 'focal plane shutter' and there are indeed many. Is there something more specific you might suggest?

The duration of your sb700 is at most 1/300 of a second (t.1 time at 1/1 manual power). If you expose at a higher shutter speed it will only expose the portion of the photo that has the slit open. Usually leaving portions of the photo unexposed to the flash. Your camera "protects" you from this by allowing you to set a maximum xsync speed.

Okay, I think I understand. I'll have to watch a few videos then reread what you've written.

Thanks so much.

 

[astroNikon]

When it's too dark for the AF system and the sb700to work there's not many options.
One is the preflash and another is to manually focus.
with the SB-700 being in TTL and on the hot shoe - the slide on the top left is to set the sb700 to TTL - push the lever all the way up.
Then when you push the release the flash will preflash in order for teh camera to focus, then flash and take a photo.

 

[greybeard34 7]

Set to manual, then set the shutter speed to 1/250. I had the same problem and this solved it.

 

[WayneF]

Hi,
I have a D300 with an SB700 and a 16-85mm lens. I don't understand why, under most conditions, the shutter speed seems to be locked at 1/60th, even when in shutter priority, for example. I'm relatively new to using a speedlight.

Speaking camera A or P modes:

The camera enforces a MINIMUM 1/60 second shutter speed when in camera A or P mode and you are using flash. (read camera manual at menu E2). Indoors without the flash, the shutter speed will naturally be slow if room is dim, say maybe 1/8 second (somewhere down there). Reach up and turn the flash on, and shutter speed jumps to the 1/60 second MINIMUM, because you're using flash and don't need the slow shutter.
The D300 has menu E2 (MINIMUM shutter speed with flash in A or P mode) where you can set the Minimum slower, but the only way to make shutter faster in A or P modes is to go out into bright ambient that will meter faster.

Slow Sync and Rear Curtain sync are exceptions, that idea is to stay at the slow shutter speed actually metered. These two options ignore the Minimum shutter speed with flash, and stay slow.

In camera S or M mode, you can set any shutter speed you wish, up to Maximum sync speed (1/250 second). Or menu E1 will allow Auto FP mode,which goes faster, which is a whole new ballgame, generally NOT desirable indoors. The regular speedlight mode can do much more indoors.

Using a 1/60th with the flash resulted in too much motion blur when taking pics of my daughter playing in the leaves :-(

That was outdoors? That would seem unusual indoors, because indoors, the ambient light (which might show any blur) would be seriously underexposed. Unless High ISO, which boosts the ambient. Turn ISO down with flash indoors.

You can do the same outdoor by intentionally underexposing the ambient a couple of stops, and then the very fast speedlight will do the rest. Or that would be a case that Auto FP mode and HSS flash could help with (allowing a fast shutter speed in bright ambient, outdoors).

Or of course, you could use S or M mode to set the shutter speed higher, 1/250 second.
Or a wider aperture in A or P mode.

If the indoor ambient is naturally underexposed (then it cant show motion blur), the flash itself is very much faster than the shutter speed. Called a Speedight, see SB-700 manual page H-17 for the speeds.

A related question - when the camera is set to shutter priority, and the rest of the settings aren't at the extremes, how can it produce a picture that isn't exposed properly?

In dim light where flash is needed, and you set some shutter speed, then the lens will typically max out wide open, and not be able to open any more.

Auto ISO is a workaround, ISO could increase (if not using flash on D300).
The D300 is "old school", and Auto ISO will not increase if the flash is present and active.
Most newer models work less desirably with flash and Auto ISO.

The problem I've had in this scenario in the past is with focusing. I'm unable to focus on the subject because it's so dark.

If using the SB-700 too, then use its focus assist light. Camera has to be be in AF-S mode, with one single focus point in the center... for that assist light to work. But then its great in the dark.

The other problem I have is with exposure before the flash. If I am shooting in manual mode, how do I set up shutter and aperture for the shot to be properly exposed in the dark when the flash will then affect that exposure? Hopefully that's clear.

The camera light meter system runs the ambient, and exposes the ambient the same as if no flash was in use. Do what you need to do, in that regard. Ambient metering works the same as if no flash in use.

The TTL flash has its own metering system, with does preflash and sets the flash power like it needs to be. The SB-700 always does TTL BL (balanced flash mode)... Unless camera is in Spot Metering mode. The flash NEVER does Spot metering, it has its own central system, but Spot Metering does switch the flash metering from TTL BL to instead be full bore TTL mode.


I would suggest reading some here

Flash pictures are Double Exposures- Outdoors

http:/How Camera Light Meters Work (2nd page)

 

[Tinderbox (UK)]

A wedding photographer told me 1/125 is the slowest speed he uses to stop motion blur under normal circumstances.

John.