Utopia of Critique Forum

[elsaspet]

BTW-
I'm assuming alot here, as I have no Earthly idea how these forums work, or the effort it takes to make certain things happen.
If I suggest something that is too difficult, or impossible to do, forum wise, I trust you to set me straight Hertz.

 

[Chiller]

Excellent discussion btw. Ya caught me on a day were we are swamped at work, but I wanted to add my thoughts from a non professional, hobby photog. Yes I still consider myself a hobby photog, even tho I was just published in a book(available at Amazon, so I guess that counts) and just released 2 calenders through work. But I am far from professional and have no intentions of being a photographer.

I dont have the same techy knowledge that a lot of members here have, and would love to learn more through the critique section. I never post there cause of the way that forum has tortured newbies in the past, and the attitude that some members feel that, the harder you are on the person is better. To offer constructive advise, in a positive manner I feel works better. I wont ramble on about that, as Im sure most of you know my feelings towards the attitude of some members here.

One suggestion that crossed my mind was if for some reason a critique forum did not get off the ground. We have the "edit, or not to edit" button available in the CP. What if we had the "critique or not to critique" button. Im sure it would be use to those members who just want to enjoy sharing their images, and not be bashed for making a mistake. Just thinking loud here, but it was something that came out the other day. You would not have to listen to people rip the image apart.

If there was a critique....

I though of a division. Beginner, and Advanced. In the beginner, anyone can critique. The poster can state the situation, say lighting conditions, settings, discuss the comp, and so on. I found one thing over the years watching people comment on my work, is that nobody knows the situation....they just ramble on about what is wrong with image. I feel that if you are in the early stages of photography, being helped along would encourage people to get out more and shoot, then to have somebody tear into the negative points of the image first. Not everyone wants to shoot like everyone else, so that way, the person can develope their own style, with the help from members who may have shared the same. I know it might sound like the general forums, but Im just tossing it around.
In the Advanced...that is where I feel a panel of experienced judges would be better off....glad Im not in that They can analyze the photo amongst themselves, and post their results. They can go at them as they feel, but in a professional tone. This is a section for those who want to carry on as a photographer.
Im not sure if this would, work, but Im just openly suggesting from a non professionals point of view.

I know a lot of you are probably saying....get lost, if you dont want to be a photographer, then why are you here. But Im sure there are many members like myself, who do like to take photos for fun, and share our experience, but also want to improve ourselves.


Please forgive my quick blabbering. I just wanted to get something out there. I have a little more I will add later.

Happy new year everyone.

 

[elsaspet]

"If there was a critique....

I though of a division. Beginner, and Advanced. In the beginner, anyone can critique. The poster can state the situation, say lighting conditions, settings, discuss the comp, and so on. I found one thing over the years watching people comment on my work, is that nobody knows the situation....they just ramble on about what is wrong with image. I feel that if you are in the early stages of photography, being helped along would encourage people to get out more and shoot, then to have somebody tear into the negative points of the image first. Not everyone wants to shoot like everyone else, so that way, the person can develope their own style, with the help from members who may have shared the same. I know it might sound like the general forums, but Im just tossing it around.
In the Advanced...that is where I feel a panel of experienced judges would be better off....glad Im not in that They can analyze the photo amongst themselves, and post their results. They can go at them as they feel, but in a professional tone. This is a section for those who want to carry on as a photographer.
Im not sure if this would, work, but Im just openly suggesting from a non professionals point of view. " -Chiller


I like that idea too Chiller, but I'd change it up a bit.

As you said, it's normally the new photographer that takes the pummelling.
It's like, "Hey, new meat!" for the new person. The gangs are on them in no time telling them how much they suck.

So instead of the way you have it, reversing it might work well.

The new photographers could get the panel, and the pros could get everyone. After all, the pros don't deal with other pros when they are selling their work, they are dealing with in most cases, the everyday joe.

And on the flip side, the new photographers don't learn a lot from other new photographers.....

Make sense? I'm still not awake. LOL.

 

[elsaspet]

And BTW Chiller, I would definately count you as one of the experienced pros. (Pro doesn't have to mean paid, IMO)

 

[abraxas]

I think to setup submissions (maybe the whole thing) similar to Photo of the Month- publicly anonymous.

It would guide the user to an introduction of the process where they could actually read the conditions instead of scanning the little-tiny intro blah, blah, blah... that everyone seems to ignore. No scolding that way.

It would also allow a gallery-view of what's next in line etc.

 

[Trenton Romulox]

Well, I mean, parts of this idea seem really good to me, but at the same time, I don't think that someone should have to share their level of experience if they don't want to. I mean, people probably sort of know that I'm a total n00b anyways, but like, that doesn't mean I want toned down critique of my work. I want you guys to treat me like I know what I'm talking about, and I know what I'm doing, that way I'll get the most honest critique of my work. If I have to Google terms you throw at me in a critique, so be it, it'd still be the best learning tool for me. But, this isn't about me, so taking that into consideration, I'd say you have a good idea.

 

[Trenton Romulox]

I think to setup submissions similar to Photo of the Month- publicly anonymous.

It would guide the user to an introduction of the process where they could actually read the conditions instead of scanning the little-tiny intro blah, blah, blah... that everyone seems to ignore. No scolding that way.

It would also allow a gallery-view of what's next in line etc.

Ah! Brilliant. Anonymous submissions. I love it.

 

[elsaspet]

I think to setup submissions (maybe the whole thing) similar to Photo of the Month- publicly anonymous.

It would guide the user to an introduction of the process where they could actually read the conditions instead of scanning the little-tiny intro blah, blah, blah... that everyone seems to ignore. No scolding that way.

It would also allow a gallery-view of what's next in line etc.

I love this idea the best. After all, most crits are done on annon photos. Perfect!!!!!!

 

[Trenton Romulox]

So, what if we take these ideas and combine them into this:

Anonymous submissions of extremely select work where the submitter only reveals a)title b)image, of course c)experience level and then anyone can look at the shots, but only a select group of people can respond to them. That group of people should be not just professionals, but anyone on here that knows how to tell it how it is, and not completely destroy people's emotions. So, I'm not sure how selecting that group of people would be done, but I think that this would be a good way to do it. That way, everyone can see the work, but only people we all mostly trust can actually tell us about it. I'm sure there are some holes in this, but I think this is really great discussion, I miss the critique section(s). I learnt a lot on this place, and the most was learnt in those sections. In fact, I was gonna sell my equipment a month ago, but when I realized that I was actually getting better at it, I decided to stick with it. Man, I love this place.

 

[Chiller]

And BTW Chiller, I would definately count you as one of the experienced pros. (Pro doesn't have to mean paid, IMO)

Thanks chicklette. I think by pro, I dont have the technical ability as most of the members here. One place Im lacking,but trying to get better at.

I like the idea of the reversed panel as long as the members who are on it, understand that the posters are ....i guess ya could say..."fragile" and are lookin for inspiration and positive feedback, not what has been dealt to them in the past.

 

[elsaspet]

So, what if we take these ideas and combine them into this:

Anonymous submissions of extremely select work where the submitter only reveals a)title b)image, of course c)experience level and then anyone can look at the shots, but only a select group of people can respond to them. That group of people should be not just professionals, but anyone on here that knows how to tell it how it is, and not completely destroy people's emotions. So, I'm not sure how selecting that group of people would be done, but I think that this would be a good way to do it. That way, everyone can see the work, but only people we all mostly trust can actually tell us about it. I'm sure there are some holes in this, but I think this is really great discussion, I miss the critique section(s). I learnt a lot on this place, and the most was learnt in those sections. In fact, I was gonna sell my equipment a month ago, but when I realized that I was actually getting better at it, I decided to stick with it. Man, I love this place.

Trenton, I love all your merge of ideas. I think it's wonderful. And I also agree that the person doesn't have to be a pro (that's just how the other forums work). I think only, that the panel member should be able to demonstate their personal ability in any said area, and are an overall, helpful, sucinct type reviewer.

I'd go on to suggest that if a reviewer turns out to be a butthead, the other panel members can vote him off the island, so to speak.
BTW-I'm watching waaaayyyyy too much TV.

 

[elsaspet]

Thanks chicklette. I think by pro, I dont have the technical ability as most of the members here. One place Im lacking,but trying to get better at.

I like the idea of the reversed panel as long as the members who are on it, understand that the posters are ....i guess ya could say..."fragile" and are lookin for inspiration and positive feedback, not what has been dealt to them in the past.

Definatley Chiller. I agree wholeheartedly. The newer they are, the thicker the kid gloves.....

And BTW-I disagree about your lack of techy knowledge totally.

 

[Helen B]

... This is something I have seen on a few other forums, and it seems to work remarkably well. If it weren't bad manners, I put in a link to show just how well it works...

I'd be interested to see the examples, bad manners or not.

I think that I'm asking for a very big favour when I ask for a critique, and I tend to select the people I ask. There's not a lot of point in getting a critique from someone whose work or viewpoint you feel no connection with, though it can be enlightening in limited doses.

One small suggestion that I would make is that multiple images be allowed as a single offering, so essays and collections can be commented upon. This fits more with the real life critique sessions that I am used to.

Good luck,
Helen

 

[abraxas]

...

I'd go on to suggest that if a reviewer turns out to be a butthead, the other panel members can vote him off the island, ...

Not good. I think it would lead to a collective dictatorship.

 

[Chiller]

Had to step in real quick..... gaaaaaah...I hate being on the road..:lmao::lmao:
This is the only line that is from another forum Im on, where the critique has worked for the last few years, and I have yet to see an ego, or fight, unless it is on a thread I did not visit.

"Any pictures posted here are open for a full critique. Show us your recent work and let us critique it, but keep in mind, some photographers may be tough on your work"

Pretty simple.

I hope this is not wrong in posting this...but these are the critique guildlines on another forum. Simple...and it works there.

A critique should be a thoughtful, reasoned response to a photograph - and it can be positive, as well as pointing out any defects. Remember that "Critique" does not equal criticism. Some photographs are fantastic. Don't think you have to find something to pick on in every shot. When critiquing, also keep in mind the level of the photographer who took the photograph. We want to encourage and nurture beginner and amateur photographers, not by praising their work, even if it's not good, but by encouraging them while suggesting ways to improve.

sorry..off on delivery again.