Utopia of Critique Forum

[elsaspet]

Archangel,
I appreciate the time you took to post, and completely understand how difficult some of our suggestions might be.

The only problem I have with your idea, is that it's a more user moderated version of the old system.
The thugs still have the opportunity to overrun it.

 

[Rick Waldroup]

I belong to a much smaller forum that uses a critique/no critique button. They also set up a critique and a no critique forum. Both of these worked- for a while.

Then, of course, some of the more opinionated photogs were accused of piling on newbies and so on, so eventually, those forums were done away with and the buttons replaced them. This has worked to a certain degree, but there are still problems with it.

Also, this particular forum has many international members, like here, and at times that has caused un-intentional confrontations based on simple mis-understandings.

Another thing we tried was setting up group leaders for each particular forum. Perhaps something like that could be implemented in helping to steer the photos to be critiqued to the right area. Like Cindy, I feel there has to be a central forum for those seeking critique, but at the same time, it would be nice if the poster could post the photo in the forum of his choice, then the group leader could send the photo to the critique forum for the panel to discuss. That way, all forums will be well represented by their respective group leaders.

Also, the group leaders would not replace regular moderators. A group leader would simply be an extra hand to help out.

Now, this may or may not work for a forum as big as this one.

Anway, these are just some random thoughts.

 

[BobEdens]

There needs to be six or so judges. There needs to be alternate judges or perhaps a jury that picks the judges each month so you only judge for a month or perhaps a quarter. (its got to be fun for them too). Working professionals shouldn't be the entire qualifications, formal education, experience with PPA competitions etc would really help.

I also think the OP comments should be limited to answering questions or saying thanks.

slightly off topic, another board I frequent requires you to post a photo if you critique one. The photo doesn't have to show or prove your statements but that’s what people try to do. It almost never causes thread jacks like you would think.

 

[Chiller]

Archangel,
I appreciate the time you took to post, and completely understand how difficult some of our suggestions might be.

The only problem I have with your idea, is that it's a more user moderated version of the old system.
The thugs still have the opportunity to overrun it.

I like the idea of being able to post your info. Many times photos get critiqued, without anyone knowing any light conditions, or photoshop work that has been applied to the image.

My biggest concern is who the "panel" might be, and how they would be chosen. And do the "meanies" get to join in on the critique, cause most are just obsessed with hearing themselves. :lmao::lmao::lmao:
Archy...thank you for dropping by. I know what goes on behind the scenes with moderation, and implementing a new critique section can not happen overnight. Somebody actually has to take the time to create it.
I think as long as we can get something together that everyone can agree on, is the first step. It works elsewhere, so it should work here.
.....and if it does work, I might even throw in an image or two. :lmao::lmao:

 

[Arch]

Archangel,
I appreciate the time you took to post, and completely understand how difficult some of our suggestions might be.

The only problem I have with your idea, is that it's a more user moderated version of the old system.
The thugs still have the opportunity to overrun it.

well the idea is to give people enough info so that they dont have to waste time or get frustrated asking questions like 'what kinda lights did you use'?... or 'what were you trying to achive with it?'.
More importantly tho, it tells the person doing the crit what skill level the poster admits to being. Therefore if they say they are a beginner its basically a flag to everyone else to take it easy.

It would also be accompanied by a set of rules for the crit posters to abide by. If then someone appears to be out of order, even with all the info they already have, then its good cause to give that person a warning. To the people that then regularly visit the crit section they should know to behave in order to not recieve any more.

 

[smcaskil]

OK, I am a person of lists, so I came up with a short list of things that need to be accomplished in order to make this happen.

1. Forum and Design
2. Set of rules for submissions
3. Critique Board Members
4. How Board Members are Selected and How Often

There are others I am sure that I left out, but this gives us a starting point.

What say we start with #2, since most of us don't know exactly what is available with the forum software and what the Admins and Mods will be able to do.

We can work up a set of rules for the submissions and hammer that part out. Then move on from there. That way we are moving forward through all the things that need to be accomplished, without bouncing from one thing to another.

 

[elsaspet]

well the idea is to give people enough info so that they dont have to waste time or get frustrated asking questions like 'what kinda lights did you use'?... or 'what were you trying to achive with it?'.
More importantly tho, it tells the person doing the crit what skill level the poster admits to being. Therefore if they say they are a beginner its basically a flag to everyone else to take it easy.

It would also be accompanied by a set of rules for the crit posters to abide by. If then someone appears to be out of order, even with all the info they already have, then its good cause to give that person a warning. To the people that then regularly visit the crit section they should know to behave in order to not recieve any more.

Ahhh, I see Archangel. Yes, I think that would be wonderful, especially the part about skill level. Some of the new people take the worst bashings. Explaining the shot and intentions is a great idea.

The second part I'm not so sure about. I hope you forgive my skeptisism, but wasn't that pretty much the deal in the old crit section? (Act like an a$$ and your out?) I'm sure that was a rule there, but one that like you said, wasn't read. Eventually a lot of people just stopped posting there.
Personally, I rarely even read there very much as the lynchings were hard to even witness.

 

[abraxas]

...

My biggest concern is who the "panel" might be, and how they would be chosen. And do the "meanies" get to join in on the critique, cause most are just obsessed with hearing themselves. :lmao::lmao::lmao:

...

Personality differences would have to be dealt with by election and term limits. For instance, say I don't care for a certain ********, and niether do my freinds- well, we all got to live with this ******-****** until the ****-******'s term limit expires or the ******-****** ***** off and dies. Maybe I'm wrong about the ****-****. I doubt it, but I agree to the system we chose to elect the *******.

 

[Chiller]

OK, I am a person of lists, so I came up with a short list of things that need to be accomplished in order to make this happen.

1. Forum and Design
2. Set of rules for submissions
3. Critique Board Members
4. How Board Members are Selected and How Often

There are others I am sure that I left out, but this gives us a starting point.

What say we start with #2, since most of us don't know exactly what is available with the forum software and what the Admins and Mods will be able to do.

We can work up a set of rules for the submissions and hammer that part out. Then move on from there. That way we are moving forward through all the things that need to be accomplished, without bouncing from one thing to another.

thanks for your imput...much appreciated. This kinda goes back to this, which I borrowed from another site.
A critique should be a thoughtful, reasoned response to a photograph - and it can be positive, as well as pointing out any defects. Remember that "Critique" does not equal criticism. Some photographs are fantastic. Don't think you have to find something to pick on in every shot. When critiquing, also keep in mind the level of the photographer who took the photograph. We want to encourage and nurture beginner and amateur photographers, not by praising their work, even if it's not good, but by encouraging them while suggesting ways to improve.


This is pretty much all the guidelines they require. It might not fit here, but could be used as a base.

 

[abraxas]

... worst bashings. ...

Define 'bashing.' I've read things that have been described as 'bashing' that were maybe blunt, but not what I would consider a bash.

I think that critics should say as they please as they want to say it. Likewise for opposition. Would you want what you percieve as 'encouraging', censored as weak and unsubstantive?

Working through decisions made by the populace is part of the process as is acceptance and reelection the reward.

 

[abraxas]

...
A critique should be a thoughtful, reasoned response to a photograph - and it can be positive, as well as pointing out any defects. Remember that "Critique" does not equal criticism. Some photographs are fantastic. Don't think you have to find something to pick on in every shot. When critiquing, also keep in mind the level of the photographer who took the photograph. We want to encourage and nurture beginner and amateur photographers, not by praising their work, even if it's not good, but by encouraging them while suggesting ways to improve. ...

I think every critic should consider their critique accordingly (a moral guideline), but not have to (law) hold themselves to it- Still say what they like the way they want to say it.

 

[Hertz van Rental]

My biggest concern is who the "panel" might be, and how they would be chosen. And do the "meanies" get to join in on the critique, cause most are just obsessed with hearing themselves.

There are really only three ways to select a panel:
1) Members nominate candidates and then everyone votes. The three with the most votes become the panel.
Disadvantages: This system is open to abuse, both in the nomination phase and the voting phase. Additionally a lot of people don't know who the hell anyone is around here so 'good' people might not get nominated or they may be too few nominations. And then there is voter apathy.
On top of it all it's a heck of a lot of work.
2) Members put themselves up for nomination and the members vote.
Disadvantages are the same as for (1).
3) Members say they are interested in doing it. The list is posted and members have the opportunity to vet, speaking out if they think anyone unsuitable is there. If there are enough valid objections against someone (2? 3?) that person is removed from the list.
The remaining names are put into a hat and three drawn at random.
I favour this last one as it is the easiest and simplest to implement.

A voting system could be implemented later if there is a need.
Four or five names should be selected - three for the panel and two spares to take over if someone has to drop out.

There should also be the proviso that a panel member can be removed at any time by the Mods if they deem it necessary (just in case).

 

[elsaspet]

Define 'bashing.' I've read things that have been described as 'bashing' that were maybe blunt, but not what I would consider a bash.

I think that critics should say as they please as they want to say it. Likewise for opposition. Would you want what you percieve as 'encouraging', censored as weak and unsubstantive?

Working through decisions made by the populace is part of the process as is acceptance and reelection the reward.

I think Chiller's example is really dead on about good crits.
As for the bad crits, I'd pull out handfulls if the old crit forum was still in place.

I don't remember who it was who made the comment, but one example I can give you from recent memory was in response to a photo for review that New England Moments put up.
I'm paraphrasing here, but basically it was, "Jeeze, not another BARN!"

But there were tons like that.

 

[elsaspet]

I vote for the last one too Hertz. That seems the fairest, expecially to the poster.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

I vote for the last one too Hertz. That seems the fairest, especially to the poster.

I could support that too.